Ticking noise under hood on 12a turbo...
 

Well I got the car running better with a new intake gasket and water rings but now when I get to about 6K-7k it starts making a ticking noise from under the hood. Now that means it's loud enough for me to hear even when the cars running almost redline. I have no idea what this is but could it have something to do with me not locking the dizzy yet? I know people just say to set leading at 10 degrees leading and trailing at 0 and take the springs out BUT HOW?!?!?! WHERE ARE THE SRINGS AND DO I SET THE TIMING AT THE BASE OF THE DIZZY? I've never really had to mess with a rotarys dizzy so I have no idea! I REALLY need help here. One more thing, I have never driven a turbo'd car so is it normal for it to stutter a little bit when you step on the throttle? Thanks guys!

If you are having rotor knock (detonation), lay off it before you blow it up. To lock the dizzy, you need to remove it from the engine. At the base of the dizzy is a gear. Push the roll pin out and remove the gear. Then you can slide the shaft out through the top. This will allow you to get to the springs. You can just remove them. When you reinstall your dizzy set your leading to 10 advance, and set the traling to 0. Then your golden. Not that hard. If you search for "locked dizzy", there is a nice write up with pics.

If your running a blowthrough, this shutter is coming from going pig rich when you stab the gas. This is something you will have to learn to drive into. Please do not run anything but premium fuel. Low octane will blow it up.

Thanks man, GREAT INFO! So a simple water/alcohol injection system would fix the rotor knock right?

Oh, and it's not a blowthru, it's a drawthru.

It will help, but a proper tune will do you and your engine alot better.

Proper tune?

Making sure air fuel mixture, timing, plug gap, proper coils, octane, etc. It's always more than you realize to get it "just right".

Another question.... I'm supposed to run a methanol and water mixture in my coolmist system but what if I run out of methanol? Can i just run plain water in the summer until i get more methanol or could I even run alcohol?

run alcohol, its better to run that than mix .. and bad83 is on point! well done bad83, you have learned alot!

So running straight alcohol is ok in my methanol/water injection kit? And just straight 100% alcohol? What about rubbing alcohol?!?! lol :)

Just get a water/meth mix. Snow preformance sells their mix, or you can just run to walmart for some Windshield Washer fluid, provided the ingredients are correct.

It would be best to tune with just straight water from the bottle. Water is always free, and it will help with detonation.

So you can just run washer fluid too!!! Thats pretty cool! What kind of mixture do you wanna look for?

Winter blend for washer fluid buy it now while you can. Like sam said pay attention to the small stuff. But i have a feeling if you have heard true rotor ping your seals are already damaged.

See I don't know if it was that or if it was something else... But no one has given any other possibilities. The owner before me drove it A little bit here and there with the same setup but no major driving. And the motor was newly rebuilt not long ago at all. So with such little driving after the rebuild I am really hoping thats not the case.

And another question, in a normal (piston) motor detonation knock doesn't really hurt anything, so what would make a rotary any different if you hear detonation knock?!?! That usually means that your surpassing the compression limits of the motor or using too cheap of gas in a higher compression motor. Even if that is in piston motors whats the difference?

um detonation does major damage in piston motors breaks ring lands skirts etc. In a rotary pieces of the apex will chip off.

So if i did a compression test and everything checks out fine i should be ok... for now at least?

The sad part is, by the time you hear knock in a rotary it's usually too late. The damage is already done. With a drawthrough setup, it's not a good idea to run more than 6psi of boost because it gets real hard to get enough fuel in it.

I've never heard that? Every time I've ever heard ANYONE talk about drawthru's they always say 10 pounds.

I heard my buddy's s/c 12a knock like marbles in a can and it didn't blow, it depends on the seals. My factory mazda seals fell apart from detonation. Use blue winter washer fluid, I have the snow kit. But heed my and others advice, tune first without it, then you can add a little timing using jsut water and have the methanol as insurance. If you rely on the wather/meth and the pump fails or you run out of fluid, then pop.....

Unless it's just a lifter ticking, lol

Well i was thinking of getting rid of the dellorto carb since it's so finiky and making my own holly intake to go onto the end of the turbo. It shouldn't be too hard, just bend 2.5 inch pipe at a 90 degree bend measure, cut to the right length and weld a holly adapter plate onto the end of it with a couple brackets.

:icon_no2:

OP sounds like he needs to experience his motor popping before he'll care lol

Turbos arnt magic OP, from being on this board over the years the #1 thing I've learned with rotarys and turbos is they need to be tuned, should probably have a shop tune it just to be safe.

Also "Every time I've ever heard ANYONE talk about drawthru's they always say 10 pounds" yeah cool maybe they do, with a tuned setup. When your motor goes pop! will you hear them say "we'll rebuild it for ya"

doubt it, awesome that you got a 12a turbo, treat it good, learn, once it does blow figure out what went wrong and learn :D

Well the whole "tune' thing is the reason i wanna put a holly on it. I can tune a holly carb, but not some italian carb....... whys it so hard to understand my reasoning to put a holly on?!?! Besides, I was told by the previous owner and many others THIS exact setup is set for 10 pounds! Now why are you guys lashing out towards ME?!?! I'll admit I've never run a turbo car before and this is my learning experiance.... so I"M LEARNING!!!!

10lbs draw threw gas mixing with compressed air just a bad idea all the way around. Just because i can shit doing a handstand does not make it a good idea.


When ever you turbo anything you need to ask yourself can i afford a new engine.

Well I guess a lot of people do bad ideas by going to 10 pounds. I mean if i did any less I could get just as much power out of my racing beat set up than a turbo.

yeah um.......no if you set it at 6 lbs there is no way any racing beat setup on a stock port 12a is gonna touch yah. I ran 6 lbs on my blow threw and i could not even hook up until 3rd.

Hey its your engine do what yah like.

You are using an archaic design that was marginal at best when new. I dont care what other people do altitude pressure everything is a factor with a carb.
How well can you tune. Wideband if not forget about it youre gonna pop that sucker.

If you cant tune the delleroto what makes you think you can make a proper intake fora Holley on there. its not as easy as it sounds velocity flow etc tc. If yuore gonna run it off the inlet of the turbo where in gods name is this Holley gonna fit? if youre gonna run the Holley get the right Holley intake for the setup.

Here's what the tick of detonation can earn ya if not prevented



http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...cture004-2.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ownhousing.jpg

how about 5 out of 6 apex seals destroyed, 1 actually snapped in 2



http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...blownseals.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...blownapex2.jpg

damage caused by too much advance and my 800 holley feeding a camden pushing 12+ psi at 8000+rpm

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...carbbottom.jpg

Now this year, undecided! First I am going to modify a 750 holley vac secondary by adding a secondary metering plate and adding indicator lights to illuminate when the secondaries open. Second, gonna install the nitrous this spring and shoot a conservative 50 shot. Last, the dream, probably not this year, I hope to twincharge and blow through the camden with a turbo (that'll be a first!).


So from the guy who's popped a few, if your pockets aren't deep I say play safe!!

Ok, how about the cartech drawthru setup that sugests (from them) that their system will run 10 pounds. It's basically the same thing. And tuning a carb that no one else likes to tune either (i'm not by myself here) is completely different than fabricating something from metal. I already explained my holly idea. If you've ever seen cartechs holly drawthu design it's basically the same idea. I just wanted to make my own with piping instead of it being cast or however they make theirs. I don't mean to make any enemies here, and I don't mean to make you mad. :)
And I'm not gonna be running too much advance if i lock my dizzy at 10 and 0 trailing. And I'm nowhere near 12 pounds of boost, actually the most it's touched is max 8 pounds with me driving.
I'm gonna try to tune the dellorto this weekend and some help from your guys would be great and i know thats all you have been doing this whole time but how about dell tuning? I've read everything you've already given me and it says to turn the 2 adjusting screws at the same time and we have...... I didn't change the idle ONE BIT! I know thats not the idle screws but it says it will start to sputter, so when it does then back the screws out one turn. but it never sputters at all and the screws can be all the way in and still no change. So what about that?

[QUOTE=84stock;9018986]Here's what the tick of detonation can earn ya if not prevented.

how about 5 out of 6 apex seals destroyed, 1 actually snapped in 2



http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...blownseals.jpg

'That blowed up real good', as they say say. That's the first time I've seen corner seals break. I must say, you did a fine job. :lol:

Frustrating part is not that you’re learning. It’s that all the questions you’ve asked have been answered a thousand times. (use the search button) (read turboforums.com) And the info people give you, you ignore. Before you even install the turbo kit you should have had a WB02 on the car for starters. Second you started a thread asking about meth injection (been discussed a thousand times) and as I and others have said hundreds of times it’s almost a must on a turbo car. Esp a rotary because they are so sensitive to detonation. So do these things in this order and start with the lowest boost setting and gradually work your way up. If you haven’t already destroyed that motor, you will very quickly atr the rate your going.

I forgot to add, the reason for my catastrophic detonation was a jdm TII front hub which had my timing marks off by about 20 degrees. Why couldn't I hear the detonation you might ask, couldn't hear much of anything other than exhaust on my video shoot....a wideband is a must have as mentioned!

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ortexhaust.flv

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/d...hortlaunch.flv

I now run after market 3mm seals and TII rotors (instead of S6) for a more durable set up. And I went from bridgeport back to streetport after snapping a bridge off the same year :(

Well I already wrote that too. I bought the car with the setup on it! You criticize me for not reading when you don't either. And i asked a question about injection systems that I ALREADY LOOKED UP and couldn't find an answer on! And it seems YOU ingnored my whole question as to why the dell carb WON' T TUNE prolly because you also have NO IDEA how to tune them. AND i already bought the meth kit which should be here in a couple days, and I'll destroy the engine at the rate I'm going eh? Thats kinda hard since I'm not even driving the fricken thing!!! Do you realize I've only owned this car for barely a month! Now before you write back...... PLEASE READ the entire thing...... You seem to really piss off alot of people no matter what thread you post in....... :wallbash:

Do you have pics?? If this is the one with the side draft mounted in front of the turbo I personally think it is a pretty neat set up. Totally efficient, no----can it be intercooled----no, cool nonetheless, yes. Due to receive as much criticism as my camden, yet once it's set up well you'll be happy. Definitely get a wideband!

Now with the wideband, would one of the $30 fuel mixture guages from advanced auto parts be good enough? I know the cheaper..... well the cheaper made but would it suffice?

Oh and yes it's probably the same one you were thinking of. Yes it is quite a neat set up. :)
And does anyone have any help for me with the dell since it will not change ANY with the adjusting screws? Seems really wierd.....
And why is no one really writting anymore? Did I offend you vxturboxv? I do believe I answered all your questions, and showed you i'm not as stupid as you think I am.

Buy a true wideband, the cheap narrowbands are just a light show.

Listen and learn. Any air fuel gauge with only sweeping idiot lights on it will cause you to blow it up quicker. That $30 gauge is only a narrow band gauge. Plus you will have to purchace a sensor/wiring kit that will cost you at least $100 on top of that. Any air fuel gauge with a numeric readout is wideband. You can spend $130 on a gauge that you can't tune by, or spend $200 that on one that you can. These guys aren't trying to be harsh, but you need to do your reseach on this stuff before trying to get someone else to do it for you.

that's right, lock your dizzy (you've already committed to that) and get a full wideband kit, learn to tune your carb and you'll be enjoying your car for years.

Yup I do seem to stir the pot a bit. That's because people are stubborn and won't listen to reason... Much like yourself. I'm not "bashing" on you. I'm trying to help. So suck up your pride and open your ears grasshopper. You might learn something. Now.... Lets look at this sillyness U wrote.

I read your posts, and if you can't find an answer to the questions U asked your not looking hard enough. Every question you've asked is answered on this forum or a general search on google. Timing questions,meth, all of them answered on this forum many times over.

Obviously you are driving the car or you wouldn't have heard this ticking noise at high RPM. You've only been driving a month U say? Well it takes about 10 seconds to blow up one of these motors so I'd say U got a good head start on it already.

The dell carb will tune just fine. You don't know how to do it. Carbs have a ton of parts and from the weak description you gave there is no way to trouble shoot the exact problem. Tearing into a carb is a hands on thing. It would have to be seen in person. So I believe you have 2 choices. Take it some where (or send it) to people who can rebuild it and prep for draw through. Or buy a carb your familiar with. And that's it. So don't whine about it just do it. There is nothing we can help U with there on a msg forum.

As far as the WB02 goes. Any simple WEB search would have told U narrow band 02's won't work. U have to spend the money now to avoid spending 5x the money later. FYI the AEM unit is the cheapest real WB02 out right now(AFAIK). It's on EBAY for $200 shipped. And a nice unit. It needs to be installed before driving the car under boost.

Follow the steps in order and your motor may live a little.

Lock timing
WB02
meth
low boost first inch your way up,stay around mid 11's AFR.

:cheers:

As for how much boost you run depends on not what other people with similar setups run but how much urs can handle! with the afrs the name says it all you will need a wb02 i no it sucks I need one to.

With tunning the dell you must be turning the wrong screw bcuz like u said it should sputter with my dhla 48 even turning it a 1/4 of the way makes a big diffrence in how it responds when you get no it, and no matter how good you tune it with a 2bbl on the low end if you just get on it to fast its gonna bog down u gotta learn to drive it.

For timing talk to rob hell tell you evrything you need to know. dont know much bout meth injection but theres plent of threads that talk about this subject just need to narrow down ur search. good luck with ur car cant wait till i get my blow thru setup going good.

vxturboxv isn't trying to be harsh with you, he's just trying to get you to listen to experience. You jump from one subject to another before you have any understanding of the hows and whys of the first. When you don't get an answer or an answer that you like the first time you ask, the second time you ask sounds more like a demand than a question.

You need to learn how to tune the Dell in NA form before you even consider trying to tune it for using a turbo with it. If you don't know how to tune it, buy a damn book and learn that carb intimately, inside and out. Learn how to tune it using a wideband and a uni-sync/synchrometer. Don't know what a uni-sync is, Google it.

Just because someone said your setup is good for 10 lbs. of boost doesn't make it true. There is so much bad info told, heard and repeated about rotarys over the years it's just plain silly. Some of the shit non-rotary and even some rotary people have told me over the years has had me doubled up, rolling on the floor with laughter. Sad part is they truely believe most of it and keep repeating what they've heard.

Let me put this question to you. Would you prefer buying a decent wideband, around 300 bucks, a couple of books, maybe another 50 or would you rather buy a rebuild kit, along with the parts that get destroyed from a bad tune and hope that the new engine holds together until you can get it properly tuned? Find a decent Dellorto carb book and pick up a copy of of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost.

When you look for a wideband, find one that not only shows real time afrs, but also logs your runs and can be downloaded to your desktop PC or laptop. I have the Innovative Motorsports LM-1 that does just that.

If you think I'm sounding like an ass, grow thicker skin. Keep in mind that I'm being polite. If I was trying to rip you a new one, your monitor would fall out of your alimentary canal. :lol:

I don't think your trying to be an ass but when you try telliing me I'm stupid for even considering a "narrow" band than a wideband....... well I didn't even know that was a narrow band. I've seen people say narrow band systems are a waste of time, I just didn't know that was the system I was looking at at the store. So don't flame me for that.
As for the carb, again, I'm not stupid enough to be turning the "WRONG" screws. I took your advice the first time and looked up the dell book online and it gave me a picture. And the adjusting screws are the SAME ones i was turning. And further more the carb was freshly rebuilt less than a year ago. And when I even suggest using a different carb the first time I get flamed for that too and now all of a sudden it's ok to change carbs?!?! WTF Seriously?!?!
And the ONLY driving I ever did on it was the trip to our garage from my house which is a 1/4 mile and that was just to "test drive" to see what all is going on with the car. I didn't know you can tune a car without turning over the engine?

Find one post/sentence where I called U “stupid”. In fact by looking at your previous posts I think people have been overly nice to you. I don’t see one reply to any of your threads where someone is claiming you are not intelligent. You are making yourself look “stupid” by ranting like a maniac.

My point is, you should research your parts yourself before putting it on others to help. I have no problems trying to help anyone. I sure as hell don’t know it all, and don’t pretend to. But I listen to experience when ever possible. I suggest you do the same. If you spent 2 minutes researching your question before throwing it on other people to answer, you could answer it yourself. Don’t be lazy. This is your car. Every car is unique. And you will be the one person that knows it the best.

As far as the carb goes… You said your self you just bought this car. Who rebuilt it less than a year ago? Do you know them personally? Did you watch them put it together? You’ve already said your not familiar with the carb. So there is no way for you to know if it was done correctly? Was the carb boost referenced? Was it even setup for draw-thru? Here is my advice. Assume that entire setup was done incorrectly. Familiarize yourself with whatever carb you plan on keeping. Then take that carb apart & make sure it is all done correctly. Then reinstall it. If it still does not work then ask questions on the forums and be as detailed as possible.

And again, I don’t believe I told you not to “turn over the engine” at any point. I said don’t boost it until you have the proper equipment to monitor it. Read and comprehend before opening your mouth. (er...type)

As far as being “flamed” … I suggest you grow a pair. There are a ton of people on this sight and I’d say only about 25% know what they are talking about. You need to learn who these people are and ignore the rest. It doesn’t really matter which carb you choose. Pick one, and learn it. From a cost perspective I’d suggest just going with what you have. If you don’t wish to learn it… Contact Robert at http://www.rotaryshack.com/ and send him the carb. He is one of the few I know of that has experience boost prepping those carbs. It will run you around 300 bucks. (cheaper than a new carb) You have to pay for knowledge, nothing is free. If you had searched properly first, you would know all his information already. I know because I was in a similar situation a few months back and went through all of this already.

Listen to those that have already been down the same road as you…. You’ll be ahead in the end.

So quit your whining and get that thing running already I wanna see what it can do! ;)

First off, I think you are confusing me, vxturboxv and CHINO84gsl. Second, thicken up that skin of your's. I don't see anyone overtly flaming you or calling you stupid. If that whatever 'screw' isn't doing what it's supposed to, then that's where you need to intimately learn all you can about how your Dell works. I'm assuming that's the idle mix screw that isn't working. If turning it all the way in doesn't change anything, your base idle screw or even the cruise control cable may be turned up/in too high.

For a general overview of rotary carbs, read through this link.

http://www.vintagerotaries.org/index.php?showtopic=17

Alright, we'll start from the beginning..... :)
Ok, My idle screw does work and does change the idle. But the adjusting screws don't change anything. And i know for a fact that the screws are the right ones. And The previous owner to me had the carb rebuilt. I'm pretty sure of this because I was keeping up with his thread about this same car and the carb was leaking gas pretty bad. So he took it to get rebuilt, I wa thinking rotary shack for some reason but I don't know that for sure. I'll ask him. As for right now I'm gonna go try again with the carb. I got my cooling mist system yesterday so if It will tune right we're gonna set the system up.
And all I meant about not turning the engine over was I had to test drive it to understand what was going wrong, not long at all but just to see what I had to deal with.

You say “idle screw” are you talking idle mixture screw or idle RPM screw? What RPM does the car idle at?

Secondly how do you know the screws are not doing any thing. Did you get a WB installed….get one!

If you can confirm Robert built the carb you can send it back to him. Something is seriously wrong if in fact nothing is happening when you adjust the screws.

So if your starting over… Did you remove the distrib and fly weight springs? Set timing at 10*?


I can’t see pictures of your setup at work, but I assume your turbo has the built in wastegate? Either way find a way to prop the WG open all the way. This should allow you to drive the car and not get into boost.( you may see 1-2psi depending on turbo/WG sizing) But nothing major.

Get the car running correctly NA before adding boost. Buy a WB02 and play with the car until it is running well. Then add alcohol, then boost.