Throttle Issue
 

I've mentioned this a couple of times before, but got nowhere.

1985 gs...emissions removed (only necessary vacuum lines are hooked up), all holes plugged.

New coils (diamond), cap, rotor, wires (mazdatrix 10mm), plugs, battery, battery cables.

O yeah....NEW FUEL FILTER!

Lots more but all irrelevant.

Anyway, when in neutral just idling, if I push the accelerator down quickly to 3/4 pedal or more (roughly) the car will want to stall. If I take my time...maybe half pedal or so it will climb up in rpms only to about 4500 or so....then begin to stumble and misfire like it is not getting enough fuel. The only thing I haven't replaced on the car is the fuel pump from 1985.

Could the fuel pump be too weak for when the car is under a certain amount of load?

(this problem also occurs while driving around, not only when in neutral. cant go above 70mph on mostly flat land....if I'm going up a hill I definitely don't have the 'pedal' due to this issue to maintain my speed)

I thought that maybe my secondaries weren't operating properly so I tied them to the primaries....but I still had the same issue.

Pull your fuel jets, make sure they're not clogged...


.

Just rebuilt the carb to no avail....

Do a simple flow and pressure test of the fuel as it come out right at the carb.

See how fast it fills a half gallon in a one gallon container and divide that into
an hour to get a gph hour number. It should do a half gallon in about 1 minute or
less for 30 gph I think. Look in the FSM for the specs on the stock fuel pump, it
may be less than 30 gph not sure. If its significantly longer then you have a tired pump
or some restriction somewhere upstream of the carb. Work your way back.

Since you have a new filter, its either a pump or a feed issue from the tank.
Don't rule out the new filter, it could have already gotten clogged by crap
from the tank, if theres crap in there.


The pressure you will need a gauge for but really the flow test will pretty
much verify it.

When you rebuilt the carb, did you specifically remove/clean/inspect the fuel jets found in the bottom of the float bowls? This step is not listed on some rebuild instructions, and I actually missed this on my first rebuild and had to go back to clean them out.

Also, when it begins to bog, does it feel like the more gas you give it, the slower you go?

Fuel pump should pump 1.5 quarts in 1 minute at 2.84-3.55 psi. Normally they either work or don't but I have had one that was intermittent for a few weeks before it died completely. Did you clean or remove the 2 inlet screens where the fuel lines attach to the top of the carb?

Since you replaced most of the ignition components, can we assume you have also tested the ignitors?

I did clean the screens, and I did test the ignitors via the FSM. If I were to test the fuel pump flow.....how would I get it to keep pumping fuel with the engine off?

So you think its definitely fuel supply related?

The fuel pump relay is a small black box located under the dash, attached to the right side of the steering column. Disconnect the plug from the relay and install a jumper wire between the Black/white wire terminal and the Blue/white wire terminal. The fuel pump will run whenever the ignition is turned on.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1302207779

should I use the fuel supply or return line?

the picture shows the return being used....but I woulda figured using the supply makes sense.

And I looked in the fsm I printed out...same one obviously. My only issue is that yes, the fsm is great, but it lacks in certain departments just as the Haynes does. It says...."as shown" for the relay and its location yet I have no idea where it is. The only thing I found was the main relay/fuse box on the left under the interior light adjust/choke/etc. I had my head on the gas pedal and all I could see were wires and plugs, no relays laid out like the picture. Not very descriptive. Are the relays in that exact location in the picture, or are they elevated to look like they're behind the instrument panel? Poor picture.

If anyone could enlighten me a little more it would be a big help. thanks!

Ok update time. I found the fuse/fuel pump connector and jumped it. No issues...fuel pump flows very well. I love when I test things on this car...everything always checks out so while it's good news that my 26 year old pump is in great shape, I have only eliminated something that the problem IS NOT caused by.

what the hell is it?

accelerator pump work?

I believe so. New gasket and all cleaned up. Shoots out gas when i move it by hand, but i will have to check it with a helper to see when the car is on.

Since this problem occurs later in the gas pedal use...or at a higher rpm, could it just be the secondary jets? And if so...would i be able to get to them by just removing the air horn and leaving the carb on the car? Much easier if i could

Yes it does feel like that. When this happens...and i let off a touch, it actually regains some power and speed.

What does this mean?



did not take out the jets...but i guess there may be reason to now.

sounds like it's running a little rich, are secondaries opening?

I will check...again....the secondaries but im pretty sure theyre opening. I can feel the difference when they open....but they seem to open about the same time im having my issue so thats why i thought secondary jets. I have the secondary arm mechanically attached to the primary arm.

Opening them at too low of RPM will make it SUPER rich, and would cause stuttering/loss of power.

I agree...but theres no reason for me to think that this is the problem. They open well after the primaries...and this issue started occurring far before i hooked the arms together

Pull the jets and inspect them. You can do this through the little inspection plugs, just reach in with a screwdriver to loosen the jet, then jam a toothpick into the jet and use that to unscrew and remove it. That way you don't have to disassemble the carb again.

I will be absolutely amazed if you find that your jets are not clogged. :)

Youre confidence in my problem cause excites me haha. I will try to tackle it today. Thanks...and hopefully i will be able to update later

Read this very long thread, and you may have a sense of deja vu. One of the first threads I ever started, and it all led back to clogged jets. :)

https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/12a-power-loss-%40-full-throttle-316922/

Thanks again...and yes, good call on the deja vu.

I will be absolutely furious lol if i find yet another thing NOT wrong with the car

Were can you get the main jets from for the Carb?

Have you removed your distributor? If so, it could be off by one tooth. This sounds similar to what my car did when I reinstalled the distributor one tooth off. Bad ignitor maybe?

Just thoughts....
Jamie

Well...i think i found another thing its not. took out the main jets....the 4 of them and they were clear. took out all of the other jets and passages that screw down through the top of the carb...nothing blocked. However...i seem to be having the same issue still and cannot figure out what the hell it is. it makes sense that it would be the jets...fuel pump flows perfect

I wish i knew what the hell was going on....i dont want to give up on this car, but this is mighty discouraging

Have you checked the distributor, and your mixture screws?

Timing is perfect...and as said earlier both igniters have been tested via the factory manual. I am definitely not pulling the distributor as of now....unless my ignition system was shot or i had a new dizzy to put in

mixture and idle screws have been set, reset, reset, reset, and set again. they are definitely not the problem.

I wish that they were the problem

maybe I will take the carb back off again and soak the thing (minus gaskets) in some seafoam. the first time I did it....two weeks ago...I used marine clean which works great.

when I removed the secondary jets they looked good. however, it was much harder to remove the secondary needle/jets (not sure of exact name) located next to where the fuel is fed from. in other words, the 2 big screws, 1 for each secondary opening. anyway, maybe its because the secondaries are not always in use, or it could be that they are not clean enough

maybe I should still try to take it off and clean it up again? the jets were clear...and most of the damn thing looks rather new (clean)

Just to make sure that you pulled the correct jets, can you describe where they were located?

Sure. Took out the jets (4 total) located in the 2 float bowls. Then...finding that they were not plugged...took out all of the needle/jets on top of the float bowl assembly (not sure their exact name).

everything was pretty clean...but maybe a passage way could be gummed up....I dont know

You didn't happen to confirm that they are in the correct positions did you? Although, if you didn't remove them the first time, then that shouldn't be an issue.

Any chance you have the carb gasket upside down?

They should be correctly seated/in the correct position. Tightened them no more than before, and yes, only took them out this try and the problem is exactly the same. Also, carb gasket was checked and orientated correctly.

This problem has existed for a year now, and well before my stupid rebuild. Replaced the fuel filter originally and after the problem. No help. I dont know what else to do other than see if I missed some crap in the carb somehow

Thanks for all your help kentetsu...im going to look at it again today if i have daylight when i get home. Gonna take off the carb and check all passages

Its possible that progress has been made. Very little if any stumbling, but cannot seem to get quite to 6k or above even in neutral sitting in the parking lot. Not that i need to....but i would like to know nothing unecesswry is holding me back. Either way i gained about 1000rpms and im not stunbling or bogging down

How sure are you that your timing is correct? Weird that you can't even rev it very high in the driveway...

100%. Timing gun was dead on the notches

Do you have any way of concluding that it's rich or lean when you get in the higher RPM's and it's starts to run crappy? Are the fuel bowls venting correctly? How's the float level? Have you glued any passageways shut when you were stripping the carb and glue a whole shut you shouldn't have? How are the small filters in your fuel inlet spider? How are your needle and seats? Were the needle and seats installed properly? Do they hang up? And how long had the carb kit been sitting around before you rebuilt the carb?

So what was t he "progress" that got you further along? Might give us an idea of
more things to look at.

I'm surprised no one mentioned this... what shape is your exhaust in? Do you still have the cat? If it's clogged, that'll definitely have the effect you're describing. Easy/loud way to test that is to pull it off and see if the engine revs free.

I'm thinking timing for sure. Especially if you've been replacing parts. I've had this happen before. Are you running direct fire? I would at least play with the timing a bit, you can always set it back...

Well...exhaust is a very good point as it is definitely something i need. Even mazdatrix said i should replace it because the cat(s) will become clogged and cause this issue...along with my backfiring. Maybe i will wait until i can replace the exhaust before i try to fix this mess haha.

Yeah, if your exhaust isn't flowing freely then it's going to run like piss no matter what you do to the timing and fuel system. I had a similar situation a couple years ago. At first, the car would just not pull up top. Then it progressed to the point where it wouldn't free-rev in neutral. Eventually all that backpressure caused the front gasket on the converter to blow out.

To answer everyone....including crispin who i accidentally ignored:

I disconnected the vacuum from the secondaries, but left them alone mechanically as well. The arms are not tied together, thus i only operate on my primaries. Good news is that there is absolutely no stumbling of any kind, but i can only rev to about 5500 or so. The secondaries must be slightly plugged somehow...one of the passageways maybe. Anywho...i would imagine that i would need well working secondaries to make it past the 5500 or so on the tach. Hopefully i can figure out where the impedance is

How did you disconnect the vacuum from the secondaries?

Don't be too sure it won't rev on just the primaries. Mine would hit the limiter before I realized my secondaries weren't hooked up at all. It was just really sluggish after 4.5K on the tach with an engine load.

I left the primary box hooked up, but didnt plug the vacuum inside. It has to be a combo of some kind of gummed up passageway for the secondaries, along with my exhaust. Im running just on primaries right now, and it runs much better but cannot get over 5500 in neutral

You should not have any problem hitting the redline in nuetral, even on primaries alone.

I think you either have a fuel delivery issue, or a timing issue.

I would go over the ignition and verify everything. Also, disconnect the leading coil and then verify that you have no spark on leading and do have it on trailing (to make sure that they are not reversed).