Ray's Nut-Be-Gone flywheel nut removal Tool
 

Did you ever have one of those days when you couldn't get the flywheel nut off?

Burned out the battery powered 1/2" Dewalt impact? Bent the breaker bar? Had to borrow your neighbor's 3/4"? Ruined your only 54 mm socket?

Not a problem anymore.

Ladies and gentleman, let me introduce Ray's Nut-Be-Gone Flywheel Removal Tool:

Attachment 649637

Attachment 649638

Does it come with steak knives?

Holy crap, Ray! Did you dremel it off? I have a tool you could use to get it off, and you're welcome to barrow it next time.

What impresses me is that apparently he got the flywheel off BEFORE the nut, now that takes ingenuity!!!!!

Durn... Air hammer it next time for sure!

Thanks for the offer on the tool Donnie, but unless it's something special it might not have worked on this one. I tried the socket I've used successfully on a half dozen flywheel nuts before, but this time I couldn't get it to budge. (Yes, I also tried heating it up).

Dremel would have taken all day, I just used my angle grinder to cut off a side of the nut, trying not to take too much of the eshaft with it. I originally thought this approach might damage the shaft (I have extras), but if done carefully there will still be plenty of thread left to hold a new nut, should be fine. Took about 5 minutes.

Robert the photos are for documentation only, there was a flywheel on there before I removed the nut! I actually did two of them this way yesterday on two 12As with the stuck nut and both eshafts should be fine to reuse.

James a heavy duty impact wrench, like you find in the pro shops that costs $800, might have worked (Robert has one, but he's over in Alabama), but I couldn't find one locally and I was getting impatient. This turned out to be cheaper, quicker and easier than hunting for an air hammer.

Remember, you saw it here first!

Holy Hell Ray lol

Ray you need a 600# impact if your going to keep doing this. It works like a charm.

Now removing the from nut from the eshaft ....

i've seen some pretty hacktastic things around here but this ranks pretty high up there. impatience is one thing but i would never take a chunk out of the threads holding the single nut holding a 25lb rotating mass at supersonic speeds near my lower extremeties. try a chisel and hammer, that usually works and is equally as destructive to the nut but not so much to the threads. the flywheel nut is a minor nuisance compared to the front e-shaft main bolt.

+2, a big impact gun is one of your best friends in this hobby. I usually have to resort to a huge breaker bar and some heat for the front bolt though...

Do u have a flywheel holding tool? Usually with a pipe on a breaker bar before I got the holder it was nightmarish.. I've only done 8-10 but haven't had an issue after the tool...

https://www.mazdatrix.com/toolmisc.htm

i guess i'll add a ghetto tip for the day to prevent my face from getting stuck in the shape of a prune when looking at these pictures.

if you have a few spare rear stationary bolts then 2 dowels(medium long bolts, roll pins, dowels, whatever that is sturdy and round that fits in the hole, hah!) placed through the flywheel against the stat gear will work as a ghetto flywheel lock. the bolts will get mangled somewhat but i have never had any shear off.

this works if you happen to have to rebuild your engine in the himalayas and only have a box of basic hand tools or are fighting off a mexican in the pic a part yard for shiny bits of metal that get their attention, when upon leaving your prize for even 15 minutes upon return you find a hollowed out carcass of what used to be something living at one point(in some extremely rare cases you might even find the thing you needed, but very unlikely because the teeth marks usually render anything remaining unusable). the sound of cackling can usually be heard fading off in the distance.

Yeah that eshaft is fucked. Garbage.

My ingersoll 2135ti impact gun was about 320 bucks new, 54mm impact was 50 bucks. Takes um off no problem. You can also buy cheaper impact guns that will work.Also im sure most of you know that if theres red loctite on the threads use a bit of heat to melt the threadlocker then hit it with the gun.

It says right on the bottle of loctite that it may require special tools to remove (oxy/acetylene torch)

(Im a technician ive had that gun for 3 years now I expect to get at least another 7 out of it)

Out of concern for your safety, and partially the integrity of your RX, Ray please don't use any E-shaft you did this to.

No need to buy an impact gun. Just roll up behind a Firestone or some tire-jocky shop, with your engine and socket in the trunk; and they will use their EXPENSIVE Matco 1200#/ft gun to rip the nut right off.


Notice I said "behind" the shop; this kinda stuff doesn't impress salesmen. And its prefferable to do this on a slow Sunday durring church hours. A $5 incentive helps too.


NOTE: I LOVE that Matco gun. :D

^lol, ide do it just to meet another remaining rare breed of "the rotary enthusiast"

:scratch:

I'm glad you dudes are finding this post entertaining, even if y'all think I'm a hillbilly.

I actually thought that metal grinder method was a pretty cool idea when I thought it up, kind of like getting back at the Rotary Gods for putting those things on so tight.

And it worked, I got those two pesky 12A's torn down. And, here's the good news, one had two mint 12A rotor housings and the other had irons that are ready for a rebuild.

Not a bad day at all, thanks to Ray's Nut-Be-Gone flywheel removal tool.

I really think the eshafts with the ground threads would be fine in a rebuild, you guys worrying about things blowing up are obviously not engineers, more likely fear mongering Republicans.

I'd bet on the eshaft in a minute.

But eshafts are a dime a dozen, I personally own 6 with intact threads plus the two I recently modified with the grinder and their resale isn't worth shipping.

So why spend $800 on a professional 600 pound air gun when you can use Ray's Easy-Nut?

Now mind you dudes, these nuts were really stuck. I've managed to whack the nuts off 6 other 12A flywheels without any trouble using my custom 54 mm modified subaru CV joint socket, hooked up to a big monkey wrench and a three pound sledge. Works great.

And you don't need any fancy flywheel locking tool, just get yourself a couple of dogs and place them strategically between the wheel and the block:

Attachment 649594

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But these two nuts were really stuck, the subaru unit wouldn't whack them lose and I wanted to see the innards. So I got out the grinder.

As they say, Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

6 e-shafts?! Ray... Are you building a secret army of 12A parts we should know about? :D

Seriously, though ME calling anyone a "hillbilly" or "redneck" is by far the best instance of the pot calling the kettel black. Just saying a hammer/airhammer and chissle works great. And there are a TON of bored out of their minds grease monkeys in January.



EDIT: and off topic... Ray I might have another 12A headed your way here soon. I MIGHT be picking up a 3rd RX7 here in the next few days, and I don't need the engine**.


**Ask me why :P

That'll do James, you know how I love to tear down 12A's.

Why don't you stop by the April OGTA meeting, should be a good turnout. I'll buy the beer.

After the red FB is up and opperational, a good break in drive on a fresh build is STRONGLY recomended. Hmmm.

I'll have to check my finals calender in May. I'm already planing a mountain trip IMMEDIATLY after them.

I have nothing against the unorthodox, it's mostly what I do:) I never sacrifice quality so damaged threads = lost shaft.

So what technique is best and what is populuar for flywheel torquing? 350 ft lbs is huge.

Red loctite and a name brand impact gun set on max. :P

Craftsman, HF, and husky are not name brands... get an IR gun.

Ingersoll Rand Air Impact Wrench — 1/2in. Drive, Model# 231C | Air Impact Wrenches| Northern Tool + Equipment


^^^ basic IR 350# gun.... Good reliable lasts a LONG time and there are rebuild kits EVERYWHERE. $150 new (there is always a sale happening though). Used on Ebay or a pawn shop for $25-100. The only problem is that you have to use adaptors to use the "giant 2 & 3/16 socket" so you will loose tourque.


Don't be afraid to buy a used one. If you are planing on rebuilding an engine; rebuilding an impact should be a cake walk.

pretty much, even an impact gun rated for 650ft/lbs of torque will realistically only apply about 300ft/lbs to the nut before it craps out. i just hammer on it until that nut stops budging and they still come off relatively easily..

the front hub bolt though usually winds up taking in excess of 350ft/lbs to remove after it has seated itself, which is why i try to only put the maximum 100ft/lbs of torque on it when reinstalling that particular bolt. in some cases it took an oxy/acetylene torch and a 6ft cheater bar to remove, which i would guesstimate would be in the 500-600ft/lb range, i swear sometimes they feel like the front of the shaft is going to shear off. i never have any problem with the flywheel nuts with just an impact gun alone.

Hate to have to say it, Ray... but I am an engineer, and I would never use that e-shaft.

Not because I'm a fear-mongering republican (I'm not), but because like all good engineers, I'm lazy and I know that the universe is my enemy, and will side violently with any hidden flaw or sub-par component that I choose to use.

This inexpensive solution has always worked for me:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...4.jpg~original

$70 from Mazdatrix for both, and between work I've done and people I've loaned it to over the years, it's probably got about a dozen tear-downs to it's credit

i try not to be too anal about minor flaws but the threads missing will relieve pressure on the ability of the nut to torque properly and possibly remain torqued, a bit of red loctite would probably let it work but i'm with DD, murphy's law. a little more care in only nicking into the threads would have worked, once you start removing 30+ degrees of friction binding surface then problems are most likely to arise.

i've cut bolts off in a similar manner before, just not as aggressively and let the results fly.

I use a piece of chain bolted from a clutch bolt to the upper right ear of the engine as a stopper.Just make sure you have washers to spread out the force to prevent sheering. I bought my 54mm socket at sears for $50. I bought my 3/4" drive breaker at TSC for $30. I use a 4 foot metal fencing pipe for added leverage.

If your engine rolls around on the ground or engine stand I find that chaining the engine to some 2x4s kind of like your giving it skis gives added stability for no tourque loss while heave hoeing on the nut.

"Hate to have to say it, Ray... but I am an engineer, and I would never use that e-shaft.

Not because I'm a fear-mongering republican (I'm not), but because like all good engineers, I'm lazy and I know that the universe is my enemy, and will side violently with any hidden flaw or sub-par component that I choose to use."

I totally agree DD, that's why I've got 6 other eshafts extracted the "right" way stored for my first 6 rebuilds (recognizing, of course, that we all have our favorite methods).

I'd only use those shaved eshafts if I was down to my last two. (And, being a biologist and, at one with Nature, I'm sure it would work).

Also, I'm about to tear down another 12A from an '83 GSL, only 125,000 miles, on a beautiful Georgia spring day afternoon.

I'm betting at least one good rotor housing and a pair of nice rotors, if the Rotary Gods approve.

And if James stops by, maybe more 12As.

PS, what's that lumpy thing hanging off the right side of your 12A?

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...4.jpg~original

Thermal reactor \m/

Yup.

dead weight is what i'd call it

Ray's Nut-Be-Gone flywheel removal tool would probably work pretty well on that thermal restrictor too.

I've used the single bolt method and cracked the rear iron. I now own a factory flywheel stop.

Has anyone ever broken the front iron while mounted on an engine stand? Seems like it could snap while torquing it down.

i'm thinking a pool of molten hot metal to turn it back into what it started out life as would be best.

recycling and all. ;)

nope, it would take a lot of work to break that casting. look at the 2 bosses on the 20B center thick iron and those can easily carry the side loaded weight of the whole engine even while dicking around with it.

I can just see DD now, imagining his thermal reactor being converted to a molten mass. Only in California.

Back to the friggin' flywheel.

NCross, those end irons will take a lot of stress, plenty for dogging. Here's how I do it:

Attachment 649284

The ONLY way to do it! With Sam Adams... Love it!

OK, for you dudes who are too squeamish to try Ray's Nut-Be-Gone flywheel removal technique, I've developed yet another original method for taking the flywheel nut off.

First, get yourself a BFMW. I borrowed this one from Robert:

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Then secure the 12A with a 2x4 wedged between your steps and the foundation:

Attachment 648394

Then install the MSCVJ on the FWN:

Attachment 648395

Put a dog in between the FW and engine block to lock the FW and connect the BFMW to the MSCVJ such that you get good leverage on the FWN:

Attachment 648396

Now go up to the third step on your back porch and trounce smartly on the handle of the BFMW to break loose the FWN:

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Now back off the FWN until it's about 1/8" proud of the E-shaft and install some dogs to keep the flywheel tight against the engine block:

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Then give the FWN a couple whacks with a 3-lb hammer and the flywheel will pop loose from the E-shaft:

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Bing Bang, you're done!

Much better :D

Plasma torch...

Why did you have a GSL-SE flywheel on your 12A?

Lmao that was awesome. I'm gonna do it that way next time lol

By gummers Jeff, that IS an SE flywheel. Good eye!

I have no idea why it's there, I picked up the car, a white 83 GSL, a few weeks ago because the price was right. The engine has a coolant problem (white smoke in the exhaust) which is why I'm tearing it down.

But it also had an odd vibration even when idling in neutral, which I figured at the time was a misfiring rear rotor. It'd been sitting for 3 years, so who knows why it got parked.

The clutch that came out of it looks practically new, so I'll bet that's when the SE flywheel got subbed in. I don't see how the SE flywheel could've caused the vibration however, since except for the number stamped on the "engine side" ("31" on the 12A unit, "304" on the SE unit; see Flywheels for reference) the flywheels appear to be identical.

Which makes me think maybe the clutch wasn't installed right (or maybe just a misfiring rear rotor). Here's a photo of the clutch and the flywheels (SE on the right). If anybody else sees anything suspicious please let me know.

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Thanks for the feedback dudes, even you guys who take life to seriously. And while the purpose of this post is to offer some alternatives for the backyard mechanic struggling to get the FW nut off late on a Sunday afternoon, I hope all will remember that SAFETY IS JOB ONE anytime you're doing your own automotive work.

So, it turns out the 83-85 12A and SE flywheels are NOT the same, even though they look very similar and weigh the same.

A closer look and measurement of the built-in counterweight at the bottom of the flywheels shows that the SE is thicker and wider than the 12A unit and the open part of the rim on the SE is a longer. Therefore the SE FW has more counterweight than an 83-85 FW.

The counterweight on the front of this engine is from an 83-85 12A, not an SE, so it seems likely the SE flywheel was the source of the engine vibration.

Thanks Jeff!

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You have to remember its meant for heavier, larger 13b rotors. Wonder what would happen if it was revved to 8000rpm on a 12a...

Yep, that's what I was thinking. Good thing I don't do that kind of stuff.

I can't believe the PO drove the car like that for 25,000 miles without complaining to the shop that installed the clutch and SE flywheel.

Good looking stuff ray. Saw the ogta meet on reddit today. Lots of nice stuff there

Here's a recent update on the research being done at the Rotary Institute to determine the most effective way to remove flywheel nuts from rotary engines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCP...ature=youtu.be

I'm pretty much convinced the BMFMW coupled with the modified Subaru CV joint is the way to go.

No disrespect but a cold chisel and a hammer work very well at bone yard trips or when a 3/4 impact gun or rb flywheel socket are not available. Chisel must be grounded down to avoid slicing the flywheel nut.