Oh my Poor Poor Engine, Why must you fail me!
 

Ok so here's the story:

My girlfriend and I are driving back from a nightclub in Calgary (i live in okotoks, a small town about 35 kilometers away) and everything seems fine. I come over the top of a hill and notice that despite the fact that I am increasing the pressure to the accelerator the car is goaining no speed nor rpms, I look over to my girlfriend and say, "this does not bode well" and as if my life is a horrible satirical comedy, BANG!!! an earth-shattering bang is heard just to the right of me (underneath the gearbox is where it felt like it emminated from) my car stalls out and i guide it over to the side of the road, I calmly get out and open the hood thinking i've tosssed a rad hose or something major, but to my horror upon opening the hood I am brought to my knees from steam and heat coming at me.

i begin to cry, not on the outside, on the inside

I tell my grilfrind to stay in the car as i try to flag down a friendly motorist, after about 30 mins of waving to celicas, civis and one pimped out 93 supra I get a guy to pull over (did i mention it's -20 Degrees centigrade outside, no? well it is.) so we get a ride to my place, i get in my dads truck (i'm 18 and live with my parents until i go away to university next year) and drive my girlfriend home.

I return home and fall asleep (it's now 4:30 in the morning and surprise surprise i work at 9:00 the next day

joy.

So after work my father and i drive to where the rx-7 is parked, (some intelectual superior has written "nice car" in the snow on the hood) and hook up a tow rope and tow it back to my house (approx. distance: 10 kms) I get it there in one piece and pull it onto the driveway.

Now, this being the second car I have ever owned, I begin to wonder what could have caused this cataclysm of events to occur and how i might go about remedeing the situation.

here's what I know:

1. the engine turns over, does not start, but turns over (not siezed) yay??

2. there was no oil/fluid under the car when we moved it

3. the smoke billowing from the hunk of metal that used to be my engine was white, not blue (no oil burning correct?)

So, i throw my self upon the mercy of the rx-7 gods and demi gods and propose this enigma, WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY CAR!?!

the nearest place that i can get it serviced is in the north end of calgary (about 50 kilometers away) I want to do all the work (if possible) myself.

Can anyone help me with tests, checklists or whatever to help me troubleshoot the engine, i really need to know whats wrong and how much it's gonna set me back.

for the record the car is:

1984 GSL SE
13B rotary
Targa Top (targa 7)
(not that that matters)

thanks in advance!

cheers'

Nope, 1 week to the day and still no start.

should i begin to shed the macho shell, break down and start crying like a little school girl?

cheers'

what have you tried?

In #3 above, where is the smoke emitting from? tailpipe?

White smoke does not necessarily mean no oil burning.

What does it sound like when you crank it? Any different than b4 this happened?

Do you have compression?

the smoke was coming from the engine, but i later noticed that some of the components had some sediment on them froma fluid (unknown to me) so it was a fluid hitting the engine causing the steam (from what i can tell)

I can;t really tell because the car always fired up in the first few seconds of me cranking it even in the cold, the engine from what i can tell sounds like it did that spilt second before it fired when i had it running all fine and dandy, I am going to pull it into the garage and make sure that the ignition isn;t fried by testing the spark against a metal surface (good idea/bad idea) i will report any news to this thread hopefully it will be like a phoenix rising from the ashes, or something to that effect cuz i'd like to see something like that, i think it'd be cool, i'm rambling though, i'll stop...

cheers'

Generally speaking, if your engine is cranking but not catching, then it's either spark or fuel that's the problem.

The loud BANG and the smoke worry me tho. Anyone else thinking major coolant leak?

Is your coolant level lower now than it was?

Yup. With any luck, the "earth-shattering bang" :) was just a hose letting go and getting the electrics wet, causing the no-start.

-John.

My dad was thinking the same thing, i can only hope that you are all correct and that there is nothing wrong with the rotor and or housing, if it;s just a coolant leak then perhaps all it will take is a few hours of service...

I shall pray tonight for an easy fix

thx for the help too!

cheers'

You said 13b? right? Disconnect the fuse for the spark and fuel? (Guys help me, dunno if its like my 88 vert or not, never had a 13b in a 1st gen)

Pull L1 plug from the motor, crank it, listen and see if you get a Chu chu chu chu chu etc...

Replace plug

Pull L2 from the motor, crank it, listen and see if you get a Chu chu chu chu chu etc.

If you get a weak sounding bunch of pulses then Id say compression ....

I have an SE also, This problem is pretty strange....

Look around the engine carefully with a flash light.... for smoke something must have burst or spilled over a hot surface.... most likely exhaust. So check for wet surfaces, and try and smell to see if you smell fuel or antifreeze. I had a problem where the seal around my injector was damaged and the injector wasn't spraying properly and fuel was leaking out.... Could have caused a fire!! Most likely your problem will be on the passenger side of the motor cause that is where all the lines run. Oil,fuel,gas. I'd remove the airbox, and the intake tube for maximum visability. It's worth the 15 minutes to remove it all. PM me if you need
Next step engine turns but doesn't start... you could try that compression test that MIKE-P-28 mentioned. It's worth a shot. I've never tried that test myself.

mine did the exact same thing, bang and white smoke from the hood, but it was my a/c hi pressure hose blown, did u have your defroster on, doesnt it work with the compressor? good luck,,,,,,,

the intereior was flooded with smoke when the engine went bang and yes i did have the defroster on, how would this stop the engine from starting though?

BTW, at's a 12a GSL (no se) carb. (see the other post where i was ripped off :( )

Um...Okay?!...:wtf:

Mike is right, do this before you mess with anything else.
The big bang sounds like a seal.

For all of those who are confused about this poor persons ordeal...check this out...https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=58582

Hey man, sorry to hear about your bum deal though :(... I have an 85 GSL & an 85 GSL-SE, and I know it would be really easy to convince someone the GSL was an -SE, until they looked under the hood, and of course the obvious differences only 7 fans would know about. Like the rims, brake rotor size, engine of course, etc. But to the layman, it would be an -SE. All I would need is the -SE badge cause I have all the other options the -SE has, and I can order the tag from Victoria British. Basically im saying anyone that didnt know too much about the 7's could have easily been duped :(, I know I could have untill I read lots of stuff and learned all about them. Even though it took me a while to do it, it was worth it :)

~T.J.

the fluid sediment that u mentioned earlier could be from the oil that is mixed with the freon, it was all over my engine and hood too, take the belt off the a/c compressor, it may be locked up and holding the engine tight, (just a suggestion my datsun wouldnt turn over with low coolant, just turned off the a/c switch and it cranked up, but was locked up with switch on), something has gotton wet from the oil somewhere maybe, clean out distrubuter cap, might have got some inside there, but let us know how the spark plug test comes out,,,,,,,,,,good luck......

Quick tests to get you started... Pun very intentional.
 

Diagnosing No start conditions, the Pele way:

So, you've got an engine that won't start.... Any enigne. Rotary, boinger, doesnt matter. Heres what to do with a simple socket set and some screwdrivers.. No garage required. (I've done this in a church parking lot within half an hour. Never fails to produce a diagnosis. Good to know if you need an engine rebuild or not.)

1.) Flooding: Somehow you've got too much fuel into the engine and it wont burn because theres no oxygen. Remove ALL the spark plugs and have an assistant crank the engine. See if the fuel sprays out the spark plug holes. (KEEP YOUR FACE AWAY FROM THE ENGINE BAY.) Disconnect the ignition coil(s), preferably at the low voltage side to reduce fire hazzard. Replace all the spark plugs, reconnect the ignition coil(s) and retry starting the engine.

You may need to ATF/MMO treat Rotary engines.

2.) Compression: You'll need compression for the engine to do anything at all. Remove a spark plug from one combustion chamber. (Cylinder or rotor housing. If there are multiple spark plugs per combustion chamber, IE Rotary engines and Some Nissans, only remove one plug per chamber.)

It's preferrable to have the ignition coil(s) disconnected as well. Disconnect the low voltage side.

Turn the engine over and listen to the pulses of air. Rotary enignes should produce three even pulses (IE: "PTSS! PTSS! PTSS!" If you get "PTSS! p.. PTSS!" Then you have a bad corner or side seal. If you get "p.. p.. PTSS!" Then you have a bad apex seal. If there are three very weak puffs or no sound at all, you have multiple seal problems.)

Piston engines should produce at least one strong puff of air.

Replace the plug and retry the test on the other combustion chambers.

Seal problems on Rotaries can sometimes be remefied with ATF/MMO treatments.

3.) Spark: You'll need spark for the engine to fire as well. Check to see if all wires connecting to the spark plugs, ignition coils, distributors (If applicable), ignition modules (if applicable) and any other related ignition items are secure. (Further quickie testing is not possible on "Coil on plug" setups. Remove spark plug wires from the spark plugs themselves. Lay them on a bare metal body component or use a test spark plug (Remove one from the engine.) that is in contact with the body. Have an assistant crank the engine and observe the spark. It's hard to do in the day, but it can be done. Be careful. Ignition circuits involve high voltage and can hurt you. Check ALL spark plug wires.

4.) Fuel: With the spark plugs removed the engine should emmit fuel vapors. If not, remove a fuel line from the carburetor or fuel rail and check for fuel.

5.) Mechanical linkages: Remove the distributor cap. It should turn as the engine is cranked. On DIS cars, look under the timing cover. Further diagnosis must be conducted sometimes as on piston engine cars, the timing belt or chain may have skipped a tooth.

NOTE: No spark and No fuel conditions, on late model cars can indicate ECU problems.

Thus concludes the no start diagnosis. Next time... Running problems. FUN!

PELE, you are like a twisted rotary "Mr.Wizard" and now boys and girls we are going to discuss how to re-grind the epitrochoidal curve of a 13bt rotary...

Mike

Huh? Simple problem solving man... Pick up some tools and join the fun. :stick: :bash: :D

it was a joke. guess it was a lot funnier when I first thought of it. now that I re-read it it is knd dumb. Oh well.

Mike

OKay!

man, the response on this has been great, thanks a bunch guys

Pele, I will try all of the tests that you proposed tomorrow and will post the results, the engine is turning over and the plugs are sparking (didn't check for the apex seals though)

and to everyone else that helped I am priniting this off and pinning it to my garage wall, I WILL find out what is wrong!!!

:)

cheers'

Oh my Poor Poor Engine, Why must you fail me!
 

A flooded GSL-SE can be fixed with no tools in under 2 mins.. just need a friend to crank.
Disconnect the spark coil to the front of the vehicle, it has a blue low voltage connector. Disconnect it and crank it over, it'll fire once... then reconnect the plug. Do this without stopping cranking, it'll fire up like any time.

I've installed a relay to do this for me... only way to start it when it's too cold out to crank fast.
Hope this helps, and that you have a GSL-SE and not a carb model.

Re: Oh my Poor Poor Engine, Why must you fail me!
 

When I had flooding problems about 8 years ago I would disconnect the trailing coil and have someone turn it over also, but the relay is a good idea if the flooding persists. In my case, cleaning the injectors solved the problem and it hasn't flooded since.

-John.

Hey all,

I am back with some results :)

1. The engine is emmiting 3 pssst's (thanks pele) which means apex seals are fine (yay).

2. There are sparks and the engine is firing (made evident by my brother turning the engine over and me sticking my head into the engine compartment with one of the sparkplugs removed (eyebrows grow back right???)

3. i just changed the oil (the smell fo the stuff in there almost made me vomit) there was no white deposts nor water in the oil (this = good)

after i get new oil in there (cleaning the oil cooler and stuff as i type this) i will try some compression tests.

this is where my question lies, what spark plug should i use to do the compression test the trailing or leading?

thanks for the help!

cheers'

I've tried it on both and found no difference, but the book says trailing.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but disconnect both primary coil wires and hold the gas pedal to the floor while you turn it over for the test.

-John.

Can I use a standard Piston engine compression tester or do i need a special compression tester for the rotary?

cheers'