MSD box install
 

im still confused on how to install the box to both coils- the instructions do not apply, I dont need to boxes do I?

You need to PM V8kilr who can do this in his sleep UNDERNEATH the car...

bump

Are you converting to direct fire?

no, im just adding the "blaster" box, it was about $80

I'm new to rotarys so could you explain the direct fire.

I mave two MSD 6A boxes and 2 MSD coils I was going to put on tomorrow but I want to know more direct fire first.

I have an 80 RX7 with a distributor with points and vaccuum advance.

Check out: https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=188907
for info on direct fire Ignition.

If you need a 3rd Igniter for that set-up check Ebay. There is a person on there selling the J109 Igniters for $15.99 to $21.00, which is very cheap!

On my car i was ONLY able to run directfire....

I had to get 3 coils, I tried running it normally and it started BUT it was horrible.

Also when you go directfire, get ready to buy a set of sparkplug wires that you cut and crimp to size. Because of the extra coil wire you'll need plus the new distances for the wires from spark plug to coil.

If you got a SE model pm me and I'll tell you what to do. I did mine about 2 months ago.

Or follow max7's website with the how to.

Thanks for showing me how to do it but as for my question. What is direct fire and what is its pros compared to the old system?

Direct fire is the way to go, I did it a couple of weeks ago and works well! Except for my Tach, my tach died, but I still think it was worth it. The pro's is that you have the spark go directly to the plugs instead of having it go through the dist. Which means, better response, gas mileage, and more power! Smooths out the engine like headers or MSD Blaster coils.

If any one has a fix for my tach, it would really help me. I have tried all kinds of things? I have hooked up the ground wire of trailing and leading to trailing and leading coils and also the power with no difference?

are ur igniters working?

Thank you sir,
although its odd that I'm known for direct fire rather then "cutting the wire on the the fuel cut relay" trick.

The truth is when I want to perfrom a mod, or do anything for that matter I read, and read, and read, take a nap, ponder, then read more.

The iginition system on an 1st gen rx7 is extremely simple compaired to whats out there.

here is a quick run down,
You have your dizzy "distributor" which tells the iginitor when to send a signal to the coil to release its "spark energy" and send it down to the plugs.

It sends what I belive is a positlively charged spark energy down to the naturally grounded plugs and this creates our spark.

Yes theres alot more to it then that but thats the iginition system in a nut shell.

I will start some new post's to answer q's so you dont have to read one long post.

good idea V8kilr...get started at that now...i'm gonna do this soon

thanx

Re: MSD box install
 

You need 1 box per any number of coils, I believe each box can drive up to 3 coils.

If you dont see it in the instructions you have some bad instruction and might have bought your box used?


and just to make it clear while I am writing on this subject this setup is not called "DLIDFIS".
but it is the one that is referred to as "DLIDFIS".

here is why it is not

DLIDFIS stand for Dual Leading Ignitor Direct Fire Igntion System, this is only 1 leading ignitor, just like before, except now your using a msd box.

So unless anyone plans to run 2 msd boxes on just the leading igintion it is not "DLIDFIS"

sorry I had to rant, I dont know who the hell gave it that name, but I know why, and I know the actuall setup it refers to "one with 2 ignitors on the leading side", but this from now on should be called "MSDDFIS"

Ok wire up your MSD box as per instructions on the pickup side of things.

Remove your leading ignitor and pack it away, where it was located you will find two wires "Green and Red"

Connect the Green to the Purple on the msd box, and the Red to the Green on the msd box.

when you go to hook up one of the coils just split the wires and drive two in paralell.

Now one coil goes to one plug "doesnt matter which" bypassing the dizzy cap and rotor.

well for now I am just gonna post in here, later I will start a whole new thread for the archive so when people ask they can get thrown an "explain it all" link.

I plan to do three complete 1st gen writeups by the end of the week.

First off you need to ditch the points ignition setup and upgrade to the later style, its not hard or expensive and its well worth it for the full effect of a msd ignition system.

Next unless you plan to run true "DLIDFIS" then you only need one box.

If you planned to run one box leading and one box trailing then forget about it, you will hurt yourself "well your car" more then help.

You could however use one more msd coil for your trailing for a more complete setup.

I would run the two msd 6a boxes on the leading and have one box drive one coil, then leave the secondary igintion system in tact only changing out to one blaster 2 coil "or which ever msd coils you bought".

Two msd 6a boxes are overkill, but I would rather have two on the leading then one on the leading and one on the trailing.

Basically with the msd setup that everyone refers to as "DLIDFIS" "which its not" you are just replacing your ignitor with a msd box, then adding a coils for extra fire power since box can handle more coils then the stock ignitors.

You are also creating one extra spark per combustion cycle on each rotor, this is known as a "wasted spark".

It doesnt hurt anything, actually helps for a more complete burn.

to find out more pros and cons and people's results search under the 1st gen section only using key words "direct fire".

For my results search same key words but add my name.

theres no point, I did it and it sucked, add a coil for another $35 new

You shouldnt have had to touch your secondary ignition system so your tach should not have been effected.

I ran a blaster 2 coil on my secondary and had no problems with my tach

This is exactly my thought, but it didnt work out, for me that way? I had originally only 2 blasters and the tach worked fine. converted over to direct fire with 1 msd 6a box and no tach? not sure why I have tried hooking the ground to both T and L with no changes? Also tried hooking the positive to both T and L? still the same?


"You shouldnt have had to touch your secondary ignition system so your tach should not have been effected.

I ran a blaster 2 coil on my secondary and had no problems with my tach"

where can i get an upgraded distributor

Upgraded? With an 80 dizzy your all set for doing an MSD upgrade.

V8kilr can you tell me why you wouldnt use one MSD leading and one Trailing? And isint splitting splitting one MSD output to 2 coils effectively halving the spark energy between the 2? I understand that one box can fire 2 coils, but can it deliver enough spark to keep the power up at hi RPM's?

I have heard 1 msd 6a box could run a whole row of coils with no problem? I read it on one of the DLIDFIS tutorials.

Rx7carl, what do you know about modifying Holley 600 vac sec?

With the MSD box, all I would have to do is to run the corrolating wires straight to the coils: correct. Pos - Neg

Would I remove the old coil wires since they run to the distributor or would I run them all together?

I believe that, but will it fire them with enough power to give a row of good sparks under the high pressure of a combustion chamber?

Modify? I see no reason to do so? What are you wanting? If they are not to your liking, get the spring kit and tune it out to your liking. If you want mech secondaries, just go get a 4150 double pumper.

The MSD has stand alone wiring for the coil. On an 80 you have a seperate ign module so it should be easy to disconnect the leading trigger from the igniter and use it to trigger the MSD. BTW, MSD has all their instructions online at their website.

Heres another DIY on this

http://www.mazspeed.com/msd.htm

I am looking into air bleeds and have realized that my 600 doesnt have adjustable air bleeds. Iam wanting to find out if and how to tap my air bleeds, because I think I need to richen my top end?

I think it is on Paul Yaws web site, about the msd box being able to push many coils at once, he said he talked to the msd tech people? They said something like "Hell yea it would push a row of coils"?

Ah, Well your carb is a 4160 model right? I'd suggest you get a metering block kit for the secondaries so you can change the fuel jets to do your richening/tuning. Dont start fuckin with the bleeds just yet. Your sec "jets" may be the key to your problem. And they arent replaceable on a standard 4160.


Yea, well I dont believe everything I read. And unfortunately I ran out of tires last time out on a track day, and that was one thing we were experimenting with. Only had time to go from MSD in direct fire leading mode to stock. I plan to test all possible setups, but that takes time and a good plan for a test day. Along with good rubber LOL.

My last question I promise.
I was reading the directions on the mazspeed web site and I just wanted to be sure. I connect the green and purple wire from the MSD box straight to the leading ignitor and replace it back into the distributor.

No, you dont use the igniter with the MSD. It works better by being triggered off the mag in the dizzy.

Quote:
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
Hook the GREEN wire on the MSD to the RED wire on the distributor and
Hook the PURPLE wire on the MSD to the GREEN wire on the distributor.

So remove the ignitor all together

i jsut put my MSD and blaster coil on yesterday. read this article. it's how i did it and it works great
http://personal.riverusers.com/~yawpower/ignition.html

Putting an msd box on the secondaries is counter productive, the spark occures more towards the top then the bottom of the rotor, this gives a slight force in the reverse direction the rotor is currently spinning, but because most of air and fuel are towards the bottom of the rotor face the primary spark has more pushing force then the secondary, the secondary spark is only there to help complete the burn of the primary spark obviously for multiple reasons, I'm sure it helps out a bit with emmisions as well.
Disconnect your secondary coil and go dyno, wont notice much difference.

The msd is not where the problem would be, it would be in the coild since they actually store and discharge the actuall spark energy, much like a capacitive discharge system, but because you are running two of them now instead of one you took care of that problem, I'm pretty sure the msd box just helps to keep a solid stronge voltage and lets not forget it throws out multiple spark signals hence the name "msd = multiple spark discharge"


Ran my car well past redline, just ask jeremy from here how fast and far my redline went. I dont think I could get it to stop on redline if I wanted to. The needle would jump so fast once it hit 6k I couldnt stop it before 7k, it would usally hit about 8k before I would shift.

the msd box is now your ignitor

OH YEAH

!!!!!!!! DO NOT MOUNT YOUR MSD COILS IN THE STOCK LOCATIONS OR SIDEWAYS AT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got pics if you want to see what happens when you do

Let me see some pics, I have always mounted my blasters side ways with out any problems? What happens?

Rx7carl: I already have my metering block. Iam currently running, no choke, 62's in the primaries and 65's in the secs. With a 1'' spacer under the carb.

Does any one know, if it is possible to hook up the stock tach to the MSD box? If so, how? What wire goes to the MSD box?

there is a small plug hole in the side of the MSD box you plug it into

I've had them sideways for a couple of years. MSD suggests not mounting this way but they don't forbid it. What happened to you?

what do you guys think about the jacobs rotary pack and coils?

Racingtang: I know where the wire for the tach goes onto the box, but what wire is supposed to be connected for the stock tach?

Purple82: I have also had my Blasters sideways for years and my brother? wassup with that?

Well nothing too bad, I will have to dig them up and take some pics, the bottom side of the coils are damaged.

Looks like they have been burned and they no longer put out a good spark, the stock coils fire better.

My car runs like shit with the bad msd coils now so I put the stockers back in and it runs fine, until I get some blaster SS coils.

Better then the msd setup but more costly

the stock tach still connects to the neg terminal on your trailing coil.

read my post above this one for second q

So if I run a wire from the MSD box to the neg side of my trailing coil, should the tach work alright? Doesnt sound good to me? I currently have the neg on the trailing coil hooked up and have no tach? Dont know why, because the tach worked fine before the direct fire install?

I'm sorry but I am new to alot of this rotary stuff. I did not pick up alot of the pictures for some reason or another. The dizzy is the distributor correct. I will wire the MSD box directly to the distributor wires, correct. The black boxes in the distributor are the mag pick ups correct. I just don't want to screw this up.

Check out the Paul Yaw site it explains everything.

http://personal.riverusers.com/~yawpower/ignition.html