Valdez

iTrader: (1)

There we go.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Can't see enough in pic 2 to tell what it is, don't recognize it. Pics 3/4 are the stock fuel filter. Pic 5, left side are 1st gen plugs, right 2nd gen. Use the 1st gen ones. They are also fouled and wet. Get them cleaned up and dried out. I have had to bead blast brand new plugs, after less than 2 minutes run time and fouling.

I'm beginning to doubt that you do have an fpr and why would anyone install one where they couldn't get to it for adjustment? Suggest a Mallory 4309 fpr mounted on the firewall with a good gauge.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Pic 2 is of the same thing as 3 and 4, just from above. Can't see much in that one. I guess I have 2 fuel filters then. I think I'll stick with the 1st gen plugs once cleaned up or try some NGKs. Seem to be having a little more luck with them anyways. I read somewhere that 2nd gen plugs do work on the 12A thou. Is that correct? What is bead blast? Is that a cleaning product you can buy or something that requires special equipment. I don't a have a spare battery either, but the one in the car seems to be quite strong. I will look into a regulator. I heard good reviews about the Holley one too. what kind of PSI am I looking for on a 12A? What do you figure the 2nd gen fuel pump is putting out? Thanks for the info.

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

I have alot of problems with my FB (chassis code for first gen) flooding. I've narrowed it down to one thing: my timing. I don't know about how to set the FC (chassis code for second gen) timing, but it doesn't really sound like your timing is off. You're getting way too much fuel. Like it was suggested earlier, get a FPR. Mount it to the firewall as Trochoid has suggested. The FC fuel pump will be putting 35-40psi base fuel pressure to your carb. If your don't have a FPR, you may have messed up your carb rebuild. The Nikki (common name around here for the factory carb, not sure how it go the name, but ya...) requires 4psi max, and some have found that with an aftermarket fuel pump they only need ~2.5psi to give them the flow that the carb requires. Go to the autoparts store, get yourself 4 NGK BR8EQ's (stock 12a plugs). Like Trochoid said, it is very difficult to clean fouled plugs, it's best to just bite the bullet and replace them. If you can pony up the coin, I suggest gettting a Holley Red or Holley Blue pump from Summit Racing. The red will supply ~6psi, so you'll need to invest in a FPR (not sure if it comes with one, it'll say on the Summit website). The blue will come with a FPR, will supply ~9psi, and more fuel than you'll ever need. I suggest the Blue. I had my Red blow just after I bought my car, and ordered the Blue. It took ~3 days to get to my door. It may take a little longer for you to get it in Manitoba, but it'll get there. Summit is a reputable company (if you've never delt with aftermarket companies, stay away from CP Racing!).

In short, you know that you're flooding, and i'm pretty sure that the EFI pump is the cause of all of your problems. Get yourself a FPR at the bare minimum. Unless you're going a blow-through turbo setup, a EFI pump on a carb is a no-go becasue of the very high base fuel pressure. Good luck and post results.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Hi Guys. I call the local RX-7 mechanic who used to do work on my last RX-7. Turns out he knows the car I bought and was the one who installed the 12A. I found out that there is a 1st gen fuel pump installed. It is tucked up near the gen gen pump and tank. Looks like the hot wire for the second gen pump is cut and now going to the much smaller first gen pump. The second gen pump is still there but is only for the first gen pump to draw the fuel from the tank through it.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

You're in luck then, the Holley fpr will work if the add on pump is low psi, it would not work with an FI pump.

Find the extra pump and post the specs on it. I would make sure there is a pre-pump filter and probably toss the FI one on the frame rail. I don't know why the installer added the extra pump. All he needed to do was install the 4309.

Your 1st gen plugs are Nippon Densos, stock oem from the factory. NGKs or NDs are fine, not Autolites.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

I thought of something else that may be of interest. When I rebuilt the carb, the new kit had some sort of needle retaining clips for the needles operated by the floats. When I took apart the carb these were not there. I couldn't figure out how the ones from the kit were supposed to go on so I didn't install them figuring they were not necessary. I tried to install them, but they were mentioned nowhere in the instructions and they kept getting in the way of the floats no matter what I did with them. Are these needed and if so how are they supposed to be installed?

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

You need them. There is a carb manual in the archival link.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

It is definately flooding, but every trick I try seems to get it to sputter a little more. Plugs are wet every time and cranking with the plugs out sends a cloud of gas everywhere. I also noticed that when looking down the carb after deflooding it and attempting to start, the secondaries on the carb are pooling up with fuel. This doesn't seem right. What would cause this? Gas seems to also be getting out the back (firewall end) of the carb somehow and is probably related to the secondaries filling with gas. This was happening both before and after the carb rebuild. With the key in the on position and not cranking no gas is visibly entering the carb. Hopefully this leads to a typical cause.

Owen

iTrader: (1)

Any luck on this? I am having the exact same problems you are having. I can feel small "puffs" as the fuel is ignitited and once in a while, a loud bang from the exhaust, but not enough to get the engine running.

And I'm still waiting on a rebuild kit to fix my leakage problems, sounds like you've already rebuilt, did you try tapping on the banjo bolts to seat the needles?

Any pix of the retaining clips on the needles you were talking about?
Owen

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Here is a picture of the clips I got with my rebuild kit with the old the needles. I assembled the one the way I figured it was supposed to go. I think the tab goes over the float's tab, but it kept hindering the movement of the floats. Since they weren't in the carb originally, I decided not to put them in as they only seemed to get in the way.

I will give my banjo bolts a tap. Heading out to try it again.

Hey Owen, if you get it going let me know what you did. If I have any luck I be sure to post.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

That's how the clips go. Add a drop or 2 of 3 in 1 oil and work the needle and seats in.

perfect_circle

its your float bowl vent solenoid. it is a little clip on the driverside of the carb. if its not attached, it will cause the secondaries(passenger side) to flood.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Son of a b!#@h! Complete stubborness seems to have helped. She runs. Not for long, but she runs! I've have it started 5 times without having to recharge the battery.

To get it going, I drained the carb of all gas until I couldn't see anything in the front sight window. I blew the gas out the rotors with no plugs more times than I'd care to remember. I cleaned the Nipppon Denso plugs with a tooth brush and gas and dried them out. Once I had it deflooded enough to get it poping with a fully charged battery, I switched on the fuel and had my wife spray the 'Start and Go' or 'Spray and Start' or 'Whatever the Heck it is Called Stuff" directly into the carb once I started cranking it over with the peddal held to the floor and no choke. That got it going. White smoke filled up my whole backyard, the first few times. Now it is getting better and I assume it is just smoking from all the flooding, oil and other assorted crap that's been in the engine the last month while it was not starting.

The problem now is that it will only run for close to a minute before dying. It seems to not be getting enough fuel now. Once started, I've been giving it gas to around the 3,000 RPM mark so it doesn't stall out on me and I can burn the crap out of the engine. But after nearly a minute it sounds like it is running out of fuel. I have to push the peddal down further and further to keep it at the same RPMs until it finally stops all together. But she will start up again without the starting spray or pulling plugs. I imagine the carb likely needs some adjusting, but is there anything else to consider?

perfect_circle

possibly a vacuum leak. you can check for it by sparying the ether(starting fluid) arounf your intake manifold, and vacuum hoses. the rom will jump if you find a leak.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

When it dies out, are the sight windows in the carb empty?

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Tapped on the banjo bolts, but I think I am going to have to take the carb apart again and try the needle retaining clips with some 3 in 1 oil. Currently the sight glass is half full.
I also found the oil metering rod disconnected. I never disconnected this when taking the carb off, so it must have been off since I got the car.
It started twice today. Then it flooded again so I am deflooding and recharging for another go now the the oil metering rod is back on.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

I must have waited a little too long when checking the sight glass earlier. I started it a few more times, and once it dies out, the glass looks empty. Sounds like the needles might be sticking. Fuel does eventually fill the carb half way thou. I must be not refilling fast enough before it runs out of gas in the carb.

I ran out and got some 3 in 1 oil and will have another crack at it in the morning when I have light. Oil up the needles and get those retaining clips in.

I am still concerned with the gas I am seeing around the base of the carb though. Seems to be comming from the lower portion where I can't see. Was happening before and after the rebuild.

Any more details on the float bowl vent solenoid? Got a Picture? I am not sure what part this is. Do you mean the air vent solenoid? Here is a driverside pic of my carb.

perfect_circle

this little bugger is the plug to the float bowl vent solenoid thingy. now to be honest, i dont know exactly what it does, but i know it can cause headaches. so if its not hooked up, and you need to know how you should hook it up, i would contact sterling, or rx7carl, and they should be able to hook you up. theyve never failed me in the past.

Owen

iTrader: (1)

I finally got my rebuild kit the other nite and as of now it's not leaking but the bowls are still filling up to almost full. New needles haven't broken in yet I guess....we'll see tomorrow when I try to start her up.

Om the solenoid, it needs 12V switched power, you should hear it click. I've also read on gutting it but that made things worse for me.

Q: won't the 3-1 oil just get washed off by fuel. I know gasoline breaks down oil...I'll try and get some anyway, if I can find it.

Rotor13B

That was most likely your problem all along. You need the mop to be functioning to keep oil in the engine for compression purposes plus seal lubrication.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the insight so far guys, I'm getting close.
It must have needed the little bit of oil I put into the plug openings, since the oil metering rod was disconnected.
There was a variety of other little things that were probably also causing some of the grief. When rebuilding the carb, I discovered the accelerator diaphram was in backwards and the pin holding its lever on was missing the clip and ready to fall off like oil metering did. Lots of loose bolts on the carb too and a couple missing that helped hold the brackets on. The carb wsn't too dirty inside but it still needed cleaning and the jets looked a little plugged with corrosion and stuff.
That soleniod never was hooked up either. See the attached pic taken before disconnecting anythinging. It's the little bugger sticking up in the air. I took a bunch before rebuilding so I could get it back together the same way. I will check out that solenoid and see if I can find the right connector. There are so many unneeded 'features' on this engine that were taken off. Plus it is a 12A in a second gen car, so there are a lot of extra connectors lying around not plugged into anything. I assumed it was disconnected for a reason, perhaps it was one of those extra 'features'.
I was thinking the same about the fuel washing the 3 in 1 oil away, but I've seen it suggested in a bunch of places. Hopefully I will have the clips in and needles oiled later today.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, the pic.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The 2nd gen wire harness does not have a plug for the solenoid, it will need a switched ignition source to work. Have you found the fpr yet? Sounds like you're making progress.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Hi Trochoid, Perfect Circle,
No I haven't bought an fpr yet now that it is starting, I might not need it. I was just under the hood searching for the connector for the solenoid but didn't see anything obvious. The closest connector that can reach has two blades in it, and both blades will plug in to the soleniod, but I didn't try it incase it wasn't the right connector. Coming of the solenoid there is also what appears to be a grounding connector with a round eyelet on the end am I right? It is too short to attach to anything but the carb, so can it be grounded on one of the carb screws? Is this soleniod definately needed? I can take a picture of this connector if it will help. I may not even have the right connection for this as Trochoid mentioned. Can you give me more details on a switched ignition source? I am unfamiliar with this.
Thanks.