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fb, fc, f-me I'm confused
Hey guys,
Been reading in the forum for a while now, and I can't figure out the exact difference with fb, fc or any of the other designations.... It probably sounds like the biggest newb question in the world, but what are the specs and what do they mean? Thanks, Jon |
Okay, here it goes..
SA 1979-1980 Rx-7 FB 1981-1985 FC 1986-1991 FD 1993 on The SA's and the FB'S are also know as first gen's. The Fc's are 2nd gens. FD's are third gens. Hope this helps. Kent |
The letters come from the vehicles' serial numbers in case you were wondering if we just made them up or something. :)
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We should have a sticky with all the basic terminology, a glossary for the rx7club.com. I'm sure all the abbreviations we throw around can be intimidating for a new poster.
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The subject of this post kicks ass.
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They are the offical vin numers for registration in the USA. Some other coutries continued to use SA as a vin for all Gen 1s. In Australia the Rx-7 ran from Series 1 to Series 6. Production continued in Japan with series 7-9 with the 280hp REW engine.
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I liked the subject too... that's the only reason I even bothered opening it...
but I agree, when I was a n00b a year and a half ago, I was very confused.. what's a: BOV FB SA-22C 12A etc, etc, etc there's lots more... I'm just too dumb right now to remember.... maybe it's the Pepsi Twist.... :confused: Jeff IMHO :D ;) |
Yeah, make a newbie glossary/dictionary. Ive suggested it before, but no one ever did it :).
~T.J. |
RotorMotorDriver--Rather than suggest why not do it yourself?
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i was wondering the same thing for a while. i think a golosary is a good idea, more like a key (like a map has)
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The two letter designation (SA, FB, FC, FD) is shorthand by rotorheads to denote models. It is based on the two letter designation encoded within the Vehicle Identification Number specific to RX-7s.
Interestingly enough, Mazda doesn't call them FBs, FCs, etc. but P642, P815, P130, etc... http://www.rotorhead.ca/ref_VIN.php http://www.rotorhead.ca/reference/VIN.jpg Want to know where and when your car was 'born'? It's actually pretty simple. If your car is a North American 1979 to 1980 model or Australian model, your VIN might look like this: SA22C900001 SA - model code (SA = RX-7 1979-80) 2 - 2 door 2 - Engine Code (2=12A) C Body Code (C=coupe) 900001 = serial number In 1981 Vehicle Identification Numbers were standardized to the 17 character format. Though there is still minor variation between Asian, European, and North American based manufacturers (passenger car might show as '1' or '3', for example), virtually all VINS can be decoded using the above chart. |
Originally posted by unreality The subject of this post kicks ass. Right on Vipernicus42! Right on. |
I think this site should be the first stop for the new rotary owner. It's got all the basics so that all you n00bs can get up to speed on what you've gotten yourselves into. ;) When I bought my first RX-7 in 1999, that site was the first one I found, and I found it quite enlightening. You can also go tothis site.
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Yeah, I've learned loads from this site over the months. I don't think I'm an RX newb as much as just a car newb in general.. but I'll tell ya, with a car as beautiful as the RX-7, I had to read that shop manual through-and-through.. and www.rotaryengineillustrated.com is really cool for newbs.
Thanks for everything guys, but does anyone have a carb ;) hehe Jon |
Originally posted by gsl-se addict SA 1979-1980 Rx-7 FB 1981-1985 FC 1986-1991 FD 1993 on |
Your forgetting FE which is the designation for the RX-8
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BOV = Blow off Valve. Releives excess pressure from the intake of a turbocharged car. Prevents the pressure from back spinning the turbo when you let off the gas.
Waste Gate = Also on a turbo charged car. Relieves excess exhaust pressure from powering the turbo when maximum boost has been attained. AST = Air Seperation Tank. Removes air from the cooling system. Found on 3rd gens. The stock units are plastic, making them prone to cracking. Upgrade to aluminium for reliability. IC = InterCooler. Cools intake air, usually on a turbo charged car. Cooler air is denser, meaning you can cram more air in, meaning you can add more fuel... All this adds to more power, hence more fun. FMIC = Front Mounted InterCooler. Exactly that. SMIC = Side Mounted InterCooler. Ditto TMIC = Top Mounted InterCooler. Duh. 2nd Gen Turbo II's come with this stock. I'll come up with more later. |
12a and 13b are the two types of engines found in 1st and 2nd gen cars (and 3rd I believe, don't hold me to that)
The names are roughly based on their size in L (1.2 for a 12a and 1.3 for a 13b roughly) Found this one in the Heynes :) Naturally Aspirated - Refers to carbureted engines, where gravity and natural air pressures suck the gas into the engine. In fuel injection, there is no carb, but fuel injectors. C'mon guys, let's keep the post going. If I get a chance, I'll grab a word doc and start jotting down all of these, we can get the admin to make a sticky of it :) Jon |
um... naturally aspirated doesn't refer to carbs, it refers to air intake without compression outside the engine, i.e. an engine with turbo or supercharger is not naturally aspirated as it pre-compresses the air before taking it into the combusion chamber.
You're right about fuel injection engines having no carb, but carbs mix air/fuel whereas FI injects the fuel into the intake manifold and has nothing to do with whether the air is naturally aspirated or not |
Newb question, the 12A is 1.1 or 1.2 L ?
Thanks Max |
The 12A is 1146 CC, so if you're rounding, it's a 1.1 by a hair.
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Yea technically a 12a is 1.1, and yes FD's are 13b's, as is the rx8 for that matter, although the ports are totally different.
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Another interesting point is !2a or !2A. In the original Japanese documents there is no upper or lower case. In the first Enlish translations which dealt with the L10A upper case was used.
So should we refer to the 12A and 13B? |
Originally posted by Paul Fitzwarryne Another interesting point is !2a or !2A. In the original Japanese documents there is no upper or lower case. In the first Enlish translations which dealt with the L10A upper case was used. So should we refer to the 12A and 13B? LOL well first i'm pretty sure its not "!2a" or "!2A". I'm sure it has to be "12A" thought considering thats how it's printed on the engines themselves... |
So is the new renesis engine classified as a 13B or does it have another engine code. Isn't it supposed to be a N/A with peripheral port, I heard somewhere that it was going to push about 250 HP
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The Renesis is just that, Renesis. As far as acronyms go, it's a version of the MSPRE (Multiple Side Port Rotary Engine) shown in the RX-01 and RX-EVOLV. To call the motor a 13B is a little erroneous, IMHO, as there are several significant internal changes. It is the same basic displacement and shape as the 13B, however.
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Kinda offtopic but ...
I believe the new 13B is just called the Renesis. Yes it has the exhaust ports in the side plates instead of the rotor housings. (Is this the definition of peripheral port?) According to C&D April 2003 this 2-rotor naturally aspirated engine displaces 1308cc, puts out 250hp @ 8500 rpm and 156 lb-ft of torque @ 5500 rpm. The tach in the RX-8 shows the redline at 9000 rpm.
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Everything I've read calls the RX8's engine a 13B Renesis. So basically no one knows what its really called.
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Re: Kinda offtopic but ...
Originally posted by 1984special it has the exhaust ports in the side plates instead of the rotor housings. (Is this the definition of peripheral port?) http://me.a-spec.ca:6112/a/Mazda/Rot...Porting/pp.GIF More porting info: http://members.rogers.com/sofronov/C...y/Porting.html |
well i heard the specs on the FE where wrong and it pushes at max 240 course that was a rumor. me being a noob this post helps out alot, some of you more experienced guys need to make a sticky
i'm as confused as a hungry baby at a titty bar p.s. don't ask me what a baby is doing in a titty bar. |
The specs for the FE were not "wrong" , they just weren't up to American emissions spec.
Let me explain. When the FE first hit the shores of the United States, it didn't pass emissions. So in a real hurry, Mazda reprogrammed the computer to make it pass emissions - at the cost of like 7hp. Within a year there'll be an ECU update which should hopefully fix the problem. So yes the FE DOES produce it's original rated horsepower - outside of the United States. So if you want that extra HP back, just complain to your local gov't... or do what I do: Live in Canada! Jon |
Hey, glad this post came back up to the top, that cleared up some newbie confusion for me... :D
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"i'm as confused as a hungry baby at a titty bar"
ROFL ! thats wicked.. lol.. As I have been here for quite a while, and think I know a lot more than a NOOB, the only thing I am confused about is the fact that Vipernicus has 958 posts and is asking what FB, FC is? or, were you joking? |
Originally posted by 82transam Everything I've read calls the RX8's engine a 13B Renesis. So basically no one knows what its really called. |
The Rx-8 doesn't have a standard for the engine code. It's still considered a :
13b 13B 13B MSP 13B MSPRE 13B Renesis Take your pic :D |
Lol, the reason I am listed as asing about FB-FC when I have over 900 posts is because I made this thread when I had less than 100 posts!!!!
It just got brought back from the dead a while back with the release of the new FAQ. I had even almost forgotten about it completely.... It's a pretty old post. I've learned a hell of a lot since then, and believe me, I am no longer confused by FB, FC, FD stuff! :p: peace Jon |
I figured I'd update this because along with the FB, FC type designations there are also the S1-S6 designations used. These were brought up in a recent post, so I'll quote and include the new info:
Originally posted by 85rotarypower There are basic "codes" we use for the cars. Lets see: SA=1979-1980=S1 FB=1981-1983=S2 FB=1984-1985=S3 FC=1986-1988=S4 FC=1989-1991=S5 FD=1993-1995=S6(I believe) Thats the codes. Of course, SA/FB was the 1st gen, FC was the 2nd gen, FD was the 3rd gen. I think I got it all right. |
Originally posted by honegod how about WE start calling it the "13C" first, then the whole world will see the logic of it and follow our lead ? Considering it IS a 13B engine design, why would anyone want to call it a 13C? ps - thumbs up to bringing back threads from the dead haha |
actually, the name renesis has a purpose, the official mazda release said something along the line of this name standing for RotarygENESIS
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That's how the name was derived by the marketing folks, yup... but the point was it's not R.E.N.E.S.I.S, as in an acronym that 'stands for' something, but simply Renesis, a cool name for a cool engine.
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So why did they change from using S designations to F designations, do the letters actually stand for something? If so what?
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yeah, check manntis' website at rotorhead.ca he has a breakdown of what they meanand the SA Vins are less than 17 didgits all cars imported after a certain Date need to have them, plus it confuses Honda people who think the seven started with FC they always claim Im lying
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I think what noob was trying to say is that in the USA (and consequently up here in Soviet Kanuckistan) they decided that starting around 1981 or so VINs had to be 17 characters long and follow a certain standard. Outside of North America, the SA designation stayed through the run of the First Generation Rx7. Over here though using SA and FB also allows us to differentiate between the 79-80 models and the 81-85 models where significant changes were made in everything from the exhaust to the rat's nest, to the flywheel and brakes.
Wow... I can't believe this thread still exists! Jon |
Better believe it. I've seen threads brought up that are 2-3 years old before.
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Alrighty guys, for those of you unfortunate enough Not to have an FC, Here's from the FAQs of my section...
PS - Sorry, I love my dad's FB, but my FC is my baby :) What do the abbreviations I see in the 2nd gen section mean? AAS = Auto Adjusting suspension ACV = Air Control Valve AFM = Air Flow Meter (also see MAF) A-spec = North American Spec ATF = Automatic transmission fluid Auto = Automatic transmission AWS = Accelerated Warm-Up System BAC = Bypass Air Control CAS = Crank Angle Sensor CPU = Central Processing Unit (the Body computer) DEI = Dynamic Effect Intake (found on 84 and later 13B engines) DMM = Digital Multi-Meter (required for most electrical testing on cars) DTSS = Dynamic tracking suspension system (found on all 2nd gen RX-7s) ECU = Emissions Control Unit (also called Engine Control unit) EFI = Electronic Fuel Injection EGI = Electronic Gasoline Injection EMS = Engine Management System (aftermarket engine computer) FB = 1st gen RX-7 81-85 production FC = 2nd gen RX-7 86-92 production FC3C = 2nd gen RX-7 convertible FC3S = 2nd gen RX-7 Coupe FCD = Fuel Cut defender (aftermarket- used only on Turbos with modifed exhaust and stock ECU) FD = 3rd gen RX-7 FI = Fuel Injection FMIC = Front Mount Intercooler GS = Sporty Model (in CAN) GT = Sporty Model with Turbo GT Limited = fully loaded every option turbo model. GTU = Sporty model in 88, base model in 89-90 (in USA) GTUs = Sporty model in 89-90 (in USA) GX = Luxury Coupe model (in CAN) GXL = Top line Luxury non turbo model J-Spec = Japanese/NZ/AUS spec model LSD = Limited Slip Differential (sometimes incorrectly called Posi or Positraction which is GM's in-house brand name for their Limited Slip Differential) MAF = Mass Air Flow sensor MOP = Metering Oil Pump. Oil Metering Pump as called in the service manual. (also see OMP) NA = 1st gen Miata NA = Normally aspirated/ Non turbo N/A = Normally aspirated/ Non turbo NB = 2nd gen Miata OE = Original Equipment OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture OMP = Oil Metering pump PD = Pulsation Dampener PS = Power steering PW = Power windows SA = 1st gen RX-7 79-80 production Savanna = The name the 1st and 2nd gen RX-7 was sold under in Japan. SE = Base model in the USA in 87.5-88 Series 1 / S1 = 1979-1980 RX-7 models Series 2 / S2 = 1981-1983 RX-7 models Series 3 / S3 = 1984-1985 RX-7 models Series 4 / S4 = 1986-1988 RX-7 models Series 5 / S5 = 1989-1992 RX-7 models Series 6 / S6 = 1992-1995 RX-7 models Sport = 86-87 Sporty model (in USA also see GS) TB = Throttle Body TBM = Throttle body modification TID = Turbo Intake Duct TMIC = Top Mount InterCooler (factory style) TPS = Throttle position sensor TII = Turbo model T2 = Turbo model VDI = Variable Dynamic Intake WOT = Wide Open Throttle 6PI = 6 Port Induction the auxiliary ports, or the not so correct term - 5th/6th ports 13B = Normally aspirated/ Non turbo, 2 rotor, rotary engine. 13BT = Turbo charged, 2 rotor, rotary engine 13B-RE = J-spec Cosmo twin turbo, 2 rotor, rotary engine. 13B-REW = FD twin turbo, 2 rotor, rotary engine. 20B = J-spec Cosmo three rotor, rotary engine. |
Here's another one.... I don't know what it is, exactly, but I KNOW if I do a search, it'll all be essplain'd to me. :D
DLIDFIS Dual Leading Igniter Direct Fire Ignition System It still confuses me every time I see it, so off I go searchin' :beer: |
Thanks that site was helpful, but what I wanted to know was if the letters stand for a word. Like RX-7 stands for rotary project 7. Does like FD3S stand for something other than 3rd generation RX-7. Like does the F stand for a word, does the D stand for a word, etc. Sorry to ask but it's really bugging me.
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I don't think they do, but I know that the FB FC FD designation is from the VIN number (that's kinda redundant)... but that was stated on the 2nd reply to this thread from RH-7.
The letters come from the vehicles' serial numbers in case you were wondering if we just made them up or something. |
Enlightenment without a flame
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane
Alrighty guys, for those of you unfortunate enough Not to have an FC, Here's from the FAQs of my section...
PS - Sorry, I love my dad's FB, but my FC is my baby :) Hope this helps. While I'm at it, what does 'lol' and 'meh' stand for? They are obviously rotor-speak, but not anything I'm familiar with. :confused: |
LOL and meh aren't rotor speak - more like forum-speak.
LOL: Laugh Out Loud meh: an expression of disinterest. ;) |
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