|
Drifting an FB?
I just got an SA and I love it, but i dont want to drift it, so once i get my FC back together and my parts car gone, i'm thinking of starting another drift project on an FB. I was just wondering what kind of set ups people were running, (suspension, LSD, ect) and what kind of powerplant you have. I'd like to stay NA. Whether it be 13B, or 12A, and preferably full injected, but i can work with carburation aswell. my goal is to make a car that can drift as good as an AE86, but keep the rotary heart and the FB lightweight body style. any tips or links that will help would be greatly appriciated. even though it will be a bit before i buy the actual car i'd like to get some info and start deciding in what to invest in first.
thanks a ton Ian |
Well, you can start by stiffening the suspension and go via Energy Suspension's full polyurethane kit. Altho, I have been told that doing that will send every bump and jarr straight through the car and right into your rear. So, keep that in mind if you want a really solid suspension. Also, look into strut mounting brackets with camber alignment if you want to go that far, with lowering springs, preferrably from Eibach (for the amount of drop they offer). Right now I'm running a completely stock GSL-SE but will be upgrading to Eibach springs and Tokico Illumina adjustable shocks/struts, along with 15" wheel/tire combo to give me a nice mixture of sidewall flex and grip. I've currently been working on my tired original suspension and 14" wheels with some okay results. And, I'm planning on keeping it NA but with a mild port job. I've already taken care of my brakes with Hawk pads and stainless steel lines, and I've gotta say, very well worth the investment. And, I'm looking into retiring the old (and clogged) exhaust setup I have right now.
Try some of those setups, maybe 16" wheels and tires if you want for maximum slickness, and talk around to some others about hints and suggestions. Check out some posts from the user of Driftlanta. He drifts his car on a regular basis. Also, since you're only 3 hours away, you can give (if you haven't heard of them) RP Performance a call. They'll also steer you in the right direction. Ion |
Originally Posted by 85 FB
Well, you can start by stiffening the suspension and go via Energy Suspension's full polyurethane kit. Altho, I have been told that doing that will send every bump and jarr straight through the car and right into your rear. So, keep that in mind if you want a really solid suspension. Also, look into strut mounting brackets with camber alignment if you want to go that far, with lowering springs, preferrably from Eibach (for the amount of drop they offer). Right now I'm running a completely stock GSL-SE but will be upgrading to Eibach springs and Tokico Illumina adjustable shocks/struts, along with 15" wheel/tire combo to give me a nice mixture of sidewall flex and grip. I've currently been working on my tired original suspension and 14" wheels with some okay results. And, I'm planning on keeping it NA but with a mild port job. I've already taken care of my brakes with Hawk pads and stainless steel lines, and I've gotta say, very well worth the investment. And, I'm looking into a retiring the old (and clogged) exhaust setup I have right now.
Try some of those setups, maybe 16" wheels and tires if you want for maximum slickness, and talk around to some others about hints and suggestions. Check out some posts from the user of Driftlanta. He drifts his car on a regular basis. Also, since you're only 2.5 hours away, you can give (if you haven't heard of them) RP Performance a call. They'll also steer you in the right direction. Ion |
Give RP Performance a call, they're the ONLY shop I'll let touch my car. The shop owner has over 20 years of experience so you won't have to worry about being lead astray, and his assistant owns an FC so he can also give you any hints you may need. He also has the strut camber alignment mounts, too. Just tell them "Ion sent you". ;)
|
If your going to be getting serious into get front coil overs, don't skimp.
|
Don't need to do much to an FB to make it driftworthy. Standard suspension upgrades plus an LSD will have you set. I wouldn't recommend poly bushings in the rear, that's definitely overkill.
The reason everybody likes 86's for drifting is the live axle. FB's have a live axle. So with standard upgrades it'll do the job just as well, and look a hell of a lot better (86 turtle-styling is hard to label as attractive) |
There are quite a few people here that drift FB's as well. Someone just posted a teaser video earlier today I believe. Well technically yesterday now.
And Rusty, I've actually been working in Carmel the past week or so. I don't drive my 7 there, though. Sorry, don't mean to thread jack. |
Nobody drift's a FB.....it's all a lie!
LOL |
The FB is balanced so well that it is incredibly easy to just hang out the ass end and leave it there. However, hanging it out and leaving it out while turning is a bit more difficult.
|
talk to driftlanta hes got fbs and is mad good at drifting and that stuff
|
why dont you just find a parking lot and go at it and see how you feel? and then go from there , making changes to suit yourself.
|
power steering would be nice.
|
power steering is not really necesary, i mean once your moving its pretty much the same anyway. maybe a quicker steering ratio. and like rolfs_7 said. just go to a parking lot. i know you dont have the car yet, but when you get it, practice alot. then when your more familiar with the car, you will have more of a feel for what you will need to upgrade. i think just stiffer springs/shocks, with poly bushing would put you in a happy place.
|
SEAT TIME-SEAT TIME-SEAT TIME-SEAT TIME
Front coil-overs,camber plates, good shocks, poly swaybar end links, front control arm bushings, strut rod bushings, use stock rear bushings,you will need a KAAZ LSD if you slide atleast once a week, the stock lsd in good shape will only last a few months at best, 200+whp is reccomended. SEAT TIME-SEAT TIME-SEAT TIME-SEAT TIME |
the man has spoken thats all you need to know ^^^^
|
hahaha i definently know how important seat time is and i couldnt agree more. thanks for all the help so far guys. my fc is almost back to drivable standards, then i need seats, a roll cage, and my suspension stuff not exactly in that order, then the FB project begins.
one question though: steering angle. i know its terrible in the FC but how is it for the FB, and if i need it whats a good way to improve it. i know you can cut the tie rods of the FC, can that be done to an FB aswell? |
If you really want to have fun, and since your in Virginia..why don't you build a road race track car. You have arguably the best track in the US (Virginia International Raceway) a jump and a skip away. Im sure you could build a drift/road race FB they are pretty similar. Good Luck!!!!
|
Steering angle is something you are going to have to figure out on your own. The FB's have a steering box, not a rack, so shimming the tie-rods will not work. The most you will be able to get is close to 50 degrees with out heavy mods.
US Drift holds events at VIR also |
i wanna drift my fb with open diff..lol
|
Originally Posted by Driftlanta
Steering angle is something you are going to have to figure out on your own. The FB's have a steering box, not a rack, so shimming the tie-rods will not work. The most you will be able to get is close to 50 degrees with out heavy mods.
US Drift holds events at VIR also |
i dont want to start an argument. im just curious, what benefits do you get from coilovers fir drifting. does it have to do with weight distribution, like whay race cars use it for?
|
Aren't coilovers already what our cars already have? Y'know, coils wrapped around struts? Or, are coilovers where you have those adjusting locking spacers on them?
|
Stock cars have McPherson struts. Coilovers have adjsutable ride height, this also allows you to set corner weights as well. You also have more choices on spring rates w/ front coil-overs. This all helps in setting your suspension up to how you like it, Scotts car(black) is setup completely different from my car(red). It all comes down to what feels best to the driver. We have logged more hours than i can remeber setting them up.
|
yea, thats what i meant, corner weights...
|
thats one thing i dont look forward to is getting my FCs coil overs and tuning them to my liking, well i dont look forward to the looking for good settings, i do look forward to the driving
|
Well, it's your driving style, and your's alone. So, go with what you're more comfortable with. If you go wide but deep into the corners or go in tight but have the rear swing out more, it's whatever you're most comfortable with. Right now I'm busy practicing having the front tires break first in a tight downhill sharp turn and then having the rear wheels push me out. Baby steps for me. ;)
|
Originally Posted by 85 FB
Well, it's your driving style, and your's alone. So, go with what you're more comfortable with. If you go wide but deep into the corners or go in tight but have the rear swing out more, it's whatever you're most comfortable with. Right now I'm busy practicing having the front tires break first in a tight downhill sharp turn and then having the rear wheels push me out. Baby steps for me. ;)
|
WHY does everyone use the E-brake or a clutch kick to do a drift? Maybe there's something I don't know, but for drifting I always focus on just weight shifting for the time being (when I can finally DO a real weight shift on the car). If I have to force the car to do something that it doesn't want to (by using E-brake or a clutch kick), then I'm going to get horrible results. And, I feel that it's just the wrong way of doing a professional drift. Plus, the pros when they put on shows they'll use all sorts of things to get a LONG drift going, so there it's fine. But, on normal tracks or togue, I prefer just using the weight shift. I find the E-brake to be a cheater stick and really pointless for a nice natural drift. Also, keep in mind, Takumi doesn't do anything else except weight shifting with brakes and gas. ;)
Hey, if you get the horsepower up high enough, you can do speed drifts like Keiichi Tsuchiya. |
I use clutch kick to start my drifts, reccomend it for starting out. Then work into feints with clutch kick.
Also practice dougnuts, then work into doing figure 8's. |
I need to find a LARGE empty parking lot, void of lights, where I can actually do that to see my car's limits. Altho, right now my tires' tread is real low, like 2/8ths low at most, to where it's almost like slicks. Figure 8's sound great.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding a clutch kick. Is that where you upshift and let the clutch out to jerk the car during acceleration? Or when, you press in the clutch, let the car freewheel, then let off it, to jerk the car into action? The latter sounds like a bad thing for the drivetrain. |
ive always understood a clutch kick as staying in gear at high rpms, but not redline (we'll say 5k) then push in the clutch, give it gas to rase the rpms and drop the clutchand when the clutch catches, the car loses traction.
my current tires on my fc are to the wear bar, which makes it easier to drift that heavy thing. like some pro drifters, i started power sliding in my FWD daily driver, then i learned to power slide and counter steer, and thats really what got me into drifting because driving sideways is alot more fun. and Keiichi Tsuchiya's speed drifts are insane i just got the drift bible not to long ago haha. |
Whats the castor like on fb/sa22c?
I've drifted my ra65 celica in the rain and it counters so nicely on it's own with just stock castor but I haven't been able to try my Rx7 yet because i've yet to weld the diff. Also, just how adjustable is the front castor on first gens? |
Originally Posted by ProjectR13B
ive always understood a clutch kick as staying in gear at high rpms, but not redline (we'll say 5k) then push in the clutch, give it gas to rase the rpms and drop the clutchand when the clutch catches, the car loses traction.
my current tires on my fc are to the wear bar, which makes it easier to drift that heavy thing. like some pro drifters, i started power sliding in my FWD daily driver, then i learned to power slide and counter steer, and thats really what got me into drifting because driving sideways is alot more fun. and Keiichi Tsuchiya's speed drifts are insane i just got the drift bible not to long ago haha. FC's aren't that heavy, Rx's are know for nimbleness and lightweight Name one pro. drifter that started in FWD, idiots try to claim FF can drift, when in reality its yanking the e-brake and sliding. I can't think of any one pro drifter that claims they started on FF. and Keiichi Tsuchiya's drift speeds are the same or slower than most current pro. drifters, in fact in a competition he would propbably loose. He is know as the drift king because he would use drifting in moderation while racing on the pro circuit back in the day to pull away from opponents. He also is largely responsible for bringing about a more organized and respected form of drifting (D1) compared to kids goofing around in the hills. In the flashy, high angle, high speed of todays D1 he propably wouldn't win. Castor is about as adjustable as any other car, depending on what parts your using of course. |
I personally perfer to the flick/kick, but has taken yrs to be able use this style.
Caster can be had with little time on a alignment machine, should be able to get more than 5 degrees. the more the better. I learned to drift on 3 degrees and o camber, with 30 degrees steering. Seat time is all you need |
Besides finding the parking lot, my other main concern is my transmission. My second gear synchro is pretty much out, so I grind 2nd everytime (hard or soft depending on how hard I jam it into 2nd or how high the RPM are)
If I had a fresh transmission, I wouldn't be as concerned of constantly downshifting into 2nd on a whim depending on the turn. I hate hearing that gear-mesh grinding. And, to get my knowledge correct, what kind of drift is it called when you tilt the steering wheel one way (a small bit) and then spin it in the opposite direction to get the car to shift its weight over to drift? Ala, Takumi (Initial D) style. Yeah yeah, I'm an ID dork, so sue me, but it's the one that got me hooked. ;) |
its called a Scandinavian flick or feint. But all this will come with time, its like tring to run before you can walk. You shouldn't worry to much about shifting during a slide yet, thats just way to much to handle starting out. I started out clutch kicking in 2nd gear mid turn, then just tried to hold the slide, then moved on to figure 8's using the same technique. I reccomend cheap used tires, and burning atleast 2-3 sets a week doing figure 8's, but do buy some falken 615's for the front(less likly to understeer). This will teach you how to hold slide, and transtion.
I also reccomend forget any thing you saw on the drift bible its all worthless info. |
Originally Posted by Driftlanta
its called a Scandinavian flick or feint. But all this will come with time, its like tring to run before you can walk. You shouldn't worry to much about shifting during a slide yet, thats just way to much to handle starting out. I started out clutch kicking in 2nd gear mid turn, then just tried to hold the slide, then moved on to figure 8's using the same technique. I reccomend cheap used tires, and burning atleast 2-3 sets a week doing figure 8's, but do buy some falken 615's for the front(less likly to understeer). This will teach you how to hold slide, and transtion.
I also reccomend forget any thing you saw on the drift bible its all worthless info. im curious why you say that...all ive ever heard was people preach about that. and i definatetly respect what you have to say but why do you say bad things about the drift bible. |
Originally Posted by DriftFB
your right on the clutch kick, except its while your cornering or initiating the corner
FC's aren't that heavy, Rx's are know for nimbleness and lightweight Name one pro. drifter that started in FWD, idiots try to claim FF can drift, when in reality its yanking the e-brake and sliding. I can't think of any one pro drifter that claims they started on FF. and Keiichi Tsuchiya's drift speeds are the same or slower than most current pro. drifters, in fact in a competition he would propbably loose. He is know as the drift king because he would use drifting in moderation while racing on the pro circuit back in the day to pull away from opponents. He also is largely responsible for bringing about a more organized and respected form of drifting (D1) compared to kids goofing around in the hills. In the flashy, high angle, high speed of todays D1 he propably wouldn't win. Castor is about as adjustable as any other car, depending on what parts your using of course. |
Originally Posted by 85 FB
Besides finding the parking lot, my other main concern is my transmission. My second gear synchro is pretty much out, so I grind 2nd everytime (hard or soft depending on how hard I jam it into 2nd or how high the RPM are)
If I had a fresh transmission, I wouldn't be as concerned of constantly downshifting into 2nd on a whim depending on the turn. I hate hearing that gear-mesh grinding. And, to get my knowledge correct, what kind of drift is it called when you tilt the steering wheel one way (a small bit) and then spin it in the opposite direction to get the car to shift its weight over to drift? Ala, Takumi (Initial D) style. Yeah yeah, I'm an ID dork, so sue me, but it's the one that got me hooked. ;) and i agree about the drift bible. its an awesome video, but drifting issomething that takes alot of practice, and thats something he had when he made the video. also, i dont know of anyone who started drifting with a car that well set up. i know i was running bone stock minus an aluminum hood for a bit less weight. i had good suspension in the rear and somewhat soft in front. |
Originally Posted by ProjectR13B
i too have to confess to being an Initial d geak, but its an addicting and good show. alot of technical stuff that somewhat holds true in the show.
and i agree about the drift bible. its an awesome video, but drifting issomething that takes alot of practice, and thats something he had when he made the video. also, i dont know of anyone who started drifting with a car that well set up. i know i was running bone stock minus an aluminum hood for a bit less weight. i had good suspension in the rear and somewhat soft in front. Well, the technical stuff is accurate as they use advisors for it. That's where I've learned the ordeal of drifting. I just let it muse inside my head and come out with thoughts on how to drift properly and the like. However, musing it over and doing it are two different things. As Driftlanta said, it's all about seat time. What I NEED to do is put theory to pavement and find out. Maybe I'll suck up the transmission problem and find a large enough parking lot with no street lights in it. Other problem is getting away with doing that and someone not being an ass and calling the local police on me. That's the last thing anyone needs. Hard to find any open place, like an abandoned airfield, to test out your car's skill. And your own. I do have a general idea of what my car can do (among spinning out a few times, once in the rain) but I'd still like to see how well it can handle a slide on my low-tread tires. Before it's time to get new ones. |
when i wacthed initial d i didnt have a running 7, so i put to use the technique that the guy in the yellow civic used. i believe its called trail brakeing.. you left foot brake while cornering to help distribute the weight over the rest of the car....i did this in my escort, but i did notice how it worked, it significantly reduces body roll.
|
I think the drift bible would be valuable if you wheren't familiar with the different techniques and you wanted to learn the basics and the different types of drifts. Some people think that drifting is mashing on the gas and holding it like that.
Initial D is entertaining sometimes, but definately shouldn't be a source of knowledge. I would look like an idiot if I was asking how to dirt drop drift or do a four wheel drift. just find an industrial area where the street racer kids don't frequent and you can't see any cameras. And have fun, even if passer by or some one inside the building call the cops your have to figure you have at least 1/2 a hour. And unless the cop catches you mid slide he can't really do much except ask you to leave.
Originally Posted by perfect_circle
when i wacthed initial d i didnt have a running 7, so i put to use the technique that the guy in the yellow civic used. i believe its called trail brakeing.. you left foot brake while cornering to help distribute the weight over the rest of the car....i did this in my escort, but i did notice how it worked, it significantly reduces body roll.
It would do nothing for body roll, either you are imagining things or you where simply going slower because you applied the brakes. Body roll is completely seperate from loading the front and rear wheels evenly or unevenly. |
yea, i guess your right, but im still sure it reduces body roll. because if i let off when im doing it, i feel the car roll outward. i feel like it is keeping the car planted. maybe it is just the throwing of the wieght forward, that is stabilizing the car.
|
i started using the quick e-brake grabs like shingo in the first season in my accord around corners. pulling the ebrake with light grabs to keep the back end out just a bit and guiding it with the front. i also learned heel-toe from initial d.
and for skeptics of gutter driving, i've successfully done it, but it is a bit harder than it looks in the show, it involves a hell of a drop to keep the wheels locked in, and i know of only one turn around here that it can be done on. |
Amazing how the topic of Initial D was able to actually pop up in a drifting thread. ;)
Anyways, in regards with it, a four wheel drift is possible. Just think about it. And a dirt drop drift.....what? Oh well, no sense in even arguing over what is right and wrong. Everyone thinks differently on how to accomplish things and the like. So, no sense in really making this turn into an argument, is there? :) |
You guys, tell me your kidding...
Yay for e-brake slides, let me know when you win some auto x events with your mad initial D skills. And you might have learned about heel toe shifting from initial D, but did the cartoon character come out and give you pointers? No it was seat time. It was a joke, in almost all drifts all four wheels are drifting at one time or another, its not like the fronts are only using a fraction of their traction, they are right at the limits or past them also. Theres just no point in making them a special "kind" of drift. Dirt drop drifts are a stupid term made up by the comic that I used as an example. Please don't try using Initial D and front wheel drive slides when you are trying to intelligently discuss drifting. |
DriftFB, y'know, I've always wondered about your experience. Obviously, from the posts that you've left, you've dabbed your hand in the drifting category, am I right?
|
Originally Posted by DriftFB
You guys, tell me your kidding...
Yay for e-brake slides, let me know when you win some auto x events with your mad initial D skills. And you might have learned about heel toe shifting from initial D, but did the cartoon character come out and give you pointers? No it was seat time. It was a joke, in almost all drifts all four wheels are drifting at one time or another, its not like the fronts are only using a fraction of their traction, they are right at the limits or past them also. Theres just no point in making them a special "kind" of drift. Dirt drop drifts are a stupid term made up by the comic that I used as an example. Please don't try using Initial D and front wheel drive slides when you are trying to intelligently discuss drifting. all i know is i like to drift, watch drift movies, and i like to talk to drifters about how they drift ot possibly learn some stuff. |
Originally Posted by 85 FB
Amazing how the topic of Initial D was able to actually pop up in a drifting thread. ;)
Anyways, in regards with it, a four wheel drift is possible. Just think about it. And a dirt drop drift.....what? Oh well, no sense in even arguing over what is right and wrong. Everyone thinks differently on how to accomplish things and the like. So, no sense in really making this turn into an argument, is there? :) and the dirt drift is something they just used to describe dropping the rear wheels into the dirt to initiate a drift. i do something similar if given the chance with sand on the road, or puddles of water. |
Oh, I tried some sliding when I was coming down a mountain road path in Colorado. That was a blast, altho I wasn't trying to drift it but slide it a bit. Think I'm crazy to attempt a drift when one wrong move and I'm hurling down a cliffside and a bunch of trees? *L* ;)
But, seriously, I had a ton of fun going down that mountain. Car did exceptionally well seeing as how the path seemed more for a rally car than anything else. I was afraid at how dirty my car would be after that. Was worth it, tho! |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:58 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands