alllllrighty then.... (holley thread...NOVEL)
 

heres the deal; i bought a holley 600cfm w/ racing beat manifold from a guy in florida. it was setup and tuned at a rotary shop. (fogot the name, have reciept somewhere). anywho, it was tuned for the exact setup i have. full exhaust, no emissions, no cats, etc.. SOOO; i got it on a couple days ago and then i got my fuel system setup yesterday and today i tried to get it going. first problem i had was the holley pump i have had for a long time (just never installed) lies!!! hahaha, the "in" and "out" sides are flipped! i was pushing the fuel back to the tank!!! AHHH, flipped it around and BAM. fires right up. i had some regulator problems but now the pressure should be good. (need a gauge) i know i know, but it has to come in the mail as no fuggin shop here has one! AHHHHHH! tonight i got it to idle beautifully at about 1000rpms. i can make it go lower but when i let off the gas it will sometimes try to stall. i've only driven it a short couple of miles but immediately it felt a hundred times better than my modded nikki. it feels even more streetable, being as i barely have to give it gas and it just goooes :D i did get on it once pretty hard and holy mother of hell.. :eek: i went through the gears faster than ever. it felt sooo good, BUT here's the thing.. going from second to third has a slight stumble when i drive very lightly, then it kicks in real nice and pulls well. i did some reading and maybe it seems it could be running lean? it does pop on decell. any holley guys have some advice? i'm completely used to a nikki, but the little bit i have messed with of this holley so far has made life easier. i love how everything is setup sooo simple! :D thanks guys, sorry for the novel. :p:

Don't forget there is an idle mixture screw on each side of the metering block, and these must be set the same or you can have some funny things happen.

One time I had a friend adjust my carb so it would idle and he only adjusted one of the screws. For the next few days during warmup my car would start and only run on one rotor for the first 20 seconds or so.

Does it stumble right when you get on the gas after shifing from second to third?

YES, that is it exactly! and actually it does it going from first to second as well. forgot to mention that. like a slight hesitation.

So it only happens when you are not getting on it though? Just normal driving between shifts? There are 2 holes on the accelerator pump for two differents settings. Try setting it to the setting that will give you an earlier pump shot. If after that you have a hesitation when you mash on the throttle, then you will need to get a larger accelerator pump cam.

or larger shooters, that would probably be a lot easier

By the same u mean the same amount of turns out from tight?

heb.

Depends on the carb. If its a 4160 From RB, then theres only one idle circut. 4150's have the dual idle circuts, and dual metering blocks.

Your problem to me sounds more like the AP needs adjustment. Whats the clearance between the lever and arm? If you dont know how to adjust it, ask. Remember, before throwing parts at a problem, you must first define it. ;)

carl you are da man. :p: ok on my holley i have a little screw on each side of the metering block. i messed with it a little today and it didnt effect my idle at all. ??? but when i went to drive i flooded out. hahhahah, well, it's actually not funny cause i got stuck kinda far away. it was wierd. anywho, i didnt get a chance to look at the ap. anyone got a pic. this holley is still very new to me. oh and carl, the clearance between the lever and arm? i am asking. :D i sure as hell dont want to mess anything up. thanks guys! you and watson are of great help!

well... Are you sure the wires on your holley fuel pump arent backwards? Causing the pump to pump the wrong way? (I dont think holley would mass produce something backwards....) Just a thought I'd mention that... not that its a problem or anything....

Laters, Andrew

oh LOL, i found out why that happened. it wasnt the wires or holley making it backwards. the plate has been removed before and accedentally put on the wrong way. :-P

Ok, heres the procedure for adjusting the pump. Lets first get familiar with teh parts. Theres a lever on the bottom of the bowl that actuates the AP plunger. The end of that arm contacts a screw/bolt head that faces upside down. On that bolt is the override spring, and talso connected to it is the actuating lever. Got all that?

With the throttle held closed at idle, hold the bolt head with a wrench. Then turn the nut, adjusting the bolt down till the bolt head just hits the AP lever (zero clearance). Then open and hold the throttle wide open. Now grasp the little AP plunger lever and make sure it has a little more travel (.015-.020 is spec). This ensures that you dont bottom the plunger and possibly bend the linkage at WOT. HTH

Ok, then you have dual metering blocks? You must if you have a small flathead idle mix screw in each one. Turn them in GENTLY till they seat, then back out 1 1/2 turns. Thats the starting point for mixture adjustment.

well, i have one metering block, but it has a screw adjustment on each side at the bottom. (the metering block goes between the float bowl and the barrells right?)

one more major question, i got an email from watson saying i should look for a vaccum leak. now on my nikki, i had a vaccum leak. a very bad one, and i think it was coming from the intake manifold to block gasket. i am an idiot because when i removed the stock stuff i thought the gasket looked damn near perfect still (it is only a couple months old and the car didnt run much during that time). but, the holley will hold a very steady idle at whatever i put it at, BUT watson noticed that i said when i turn the mixture screws... NOTHING happens at all. sound like a vac leak??? hmmmm. would this cause everyything else to be out of wack? :D

allllllllllllllright; "update" :D ok, tonight i got home from work and decided to attack the vaccum leak. i ripped the carb and manifold off. cleaned everything and then used some liquid gasket and made my own. shouldnt leak!!!!! ahhhhh! :p: then, i adjusted the floats. i set it to where when the fuel pump is on, it just baarely drips out the sight holes. next, i messed with the air fuel screws and turned them all the way in and then 1 1/2 turns out. and last; i opened the secondaries up just a tad and backed off of the idle. the master tech at my job says that will help the carb to only run on the idle curcuits instead of idle curcuits and partial throttle. because my primaries were pretty damn open even idleing at 800rpms. he said this should do the trick. tomorrow i will try and crank it! :D anyone think i should adjust anything else? lemme know now. WOOOOOO!

I have a little stumble in mine, but after tunning it goes away. It is just your air flow mixture. Needs just a little more adjusting.

we'll see come tomorrow afternoon! :D i plan to adjust the accel. pump too as per carls info. yipeee!

-the zacster

i'm wounderin what kind of engine (interior mod wise) you got? do you know what size of jets you have?

Well? ^^ Free bump

Instead of opening the secondaries like you have done, you can drill a small hole in each primary butterfly. Only do that if nothing else works though.

sweet, but i couldnt get it to crank today :( i had made a gasket out of high temp rtv and i guess that just wont work. or maybe i didnt use enough. it leaked a little gas so obviously there was a serious vaccum leak. damnit, i used it on my old manifold. i dont wanna wait on the rb gasket. lol. guess i have to though :/ any suggestions?

Yea, the Holley carb builders do that for race carbs on the oval track cars that dont have to idle low. I wouldnt do that for a street carb though.

Zac- wait for the gaskets. RTV isint very happy in a fuel environment.

amazing thing today. i called up the mazda dealer near me, and BOOM! they have one intake manifold gasket for me! :D $6.50 !!!!!! oh well, about the same to be shipped from somewhere else. LOL. i will pick up it up early tomorrow morning and then slap that mofo on! should i be using a special gasket though with this rb manifold? or will the stock one be ok.

stock will work....

Put the gasket up to the RB manifold and trim it to fit their ports. They are different than the ports on the stock manifold. Try it and youll see what I mean. ;)

But stock gasket will technically work :p:


:D

Sure it will. It'll also block a bunch of airflow. ;)

yea i got the gasket on today and trimmed it up. big difference. now i'm having a different problem all together. the trailign plugs are getting wet, but the leading plugs are bone dry. they are all brand new as of today. any ideas???

Are the trailing plugs even firing? See if you are getting spark from your trailing coil. Good luck.

Marques

lol, dude you rock. i swear that should have been obvious to me. i have just been stressing so hard on this car that its killing me. i'm a technician at dodge and i work on cars all day long, just to come home and not even be able to get my very own to run. :( it takes a toll on an automotive tech. i will check for spark and then see whats up.

checked for spark. everything is in great working order. might try mar3's gumout trick.

goodness, zach, i'm sorry. that car has given you so much trouble. i hope you get roxy running like a champ soon.
thumbs up to you for still working with her.
--lauren

beautimus! she almost cranked tonight. guess she was just flooded as hell from me trying to crank it before i actually adjusted the floats? i dunno but there was waayyyy tooo much gas in there. it started once then died within2 seconds. so i pulled the spark plugs out and stuffed paper towel in the holes and i'm letting it evaporate over night. i'll try again tomorrow. the gumout didnt do shit. :(

well, let it sit over night and all day with the spark plugs out. FIRED RIGHT UP FIRST TRY!!!!! i let it warm up and noticed it was running lean. wouldnt idle; so i turned it off and went to set the idle. i also went and bumped up the floats to make it not so lean. i guess i bumped them too much cause i flooded it again. AAHAHAHAH, damnit! so i'm doing the same procedure tonight. will not fuck up tomorrow. hahahahahahaha :D (....< is a little drunk)

heh, looks like you will get it figured out eventually. You don't need to let it sit overnight though, just crank it over with the plugs out to blow all the fuel out of there. Clean off the plugs and should fire right up. You really need to get the float levels set right before you can do any tuning. Good luck tomorrow.

Marques

yea i know. thanks. i think i did have the floats set correctly. i think it was the idle mixture and my accel. pump settings. hahahha, anywho, the floats are now back to spec. i believe tomorrow should be a good day for my car and I. :D i would do it tonight, but i have been drinking and my woman needs some attention too i guess. LOL i cant wait though cause i plan to get it back on the dyno when this is drivable. WOOOOOO!

You can set the floats and everything with the car running so you know what you are doing and the effects of what you are doing. I believe you are on your way. I just tuned mine today after sitting for awhile, man was it rich, whoo.. But now all is good and running real strong.

everytime i try to adjust my floats with the car running gas squirts out under the nut! too much fuel pressure????

NO that is normal, fuel should be squirting out if you don't put pressure on the screw to keep the gasket closed, if you work with it you can figure it out. You can stiil turn the float adjuster with the screw just loose and then tighten it. What I do is, adjust it by hand, atleast sometimes, and keep the screw driver on the screw with some pressure and then when you are done adjusting, tighten the screw back up. Its not too hard to do, just takes some practice.

If I was you I wouldnt try to richen by messing with the floats. Set the floats to where you had them originally, with gas dribbling out of the hole. Then get the idle mix screws at 2 1/4 turns out. Try starting it, if it doesnt fire up with one peddle pump before you turn the key. Then turn the screw that will open your throttle plates, uh I dont know a half of turn or 1 turnclock wise. Turn the key again it should start and idle high. Adjust the throttle plate screw to idle down to about 1000-1250. Should be fine there, depending on what jets are installed and if the carb is in good working order. And make sure you get that fuel pressure regulator set to 6 psi.

Is this street ported?

813kr$; no it isnt streetported. and the idle mix screws i think are my problem. i have them only 1 turn out on both sides. guess i should turn them another 1 and 1/4 or so eh? i have set my floats back to spec but still havent had a chance to go out and crank it again cause it keeps raining when i get home. and i dont want the motor and the battery charger to get soaked. :eek: hahaha, hopefully tomorrow will be a nicer day.

Actually the starting point is 1.5 turns out. That is only a starting point though. Then just turn them until your idle is strongest/smoothest. There is no arbitrary amount of turns out that the idle will be best.

I'm planning on dropping in a street ported motor and a RB holley SP setup. Right now all i have is a RB street port exhaust. How much of a gain will I be expecting with this setup?

Also, what's the max tire/wheel combo for a 1st gen. I really don't wanna go bigger than a 16 because this car will see much track time, and weight is a bad thing.

with my experience, which I have been playing with the idle mix alot lately and at the track, me engine likes atleast 2 turns out(Iam at 2.5 turns out). The leaner I go, the smoother the idle, but slower 1/8 mile times, the richer my idle the rougher the idle and quicker 1/8 times.

lovintha7: with a well tuned carb and low restriction exhaust, you should be around 200hp. I would go with light wieght 15" rims. You can get good 50 series tires, like 205's. Also if this is a 1st gen, look into Direct Fire Ignition and to save money you can use the 2nd gen coil.

What is your idle speed? You really shouldn't ever have to back more than 2 turns out. After you set your idle how far open are the throttle plates? If they are open enough to uncover the idle transfer slots then I would try drilling some holes in your throttle plates and then retuning the idle.

mwatson184:

No, Iam not doing any drilling! I idle at about 1250rpm's. I am not sure where you get your info from about only turning out 2 turns, but I have heard before to start at 2 1/4 turns out and go from there. I have track backed evidence my engine likes over 2 turns out! I tuned on the street and had leaned out my idle to 1/2 turn out, then went to the track and slowly richened my idle mix and knocked off almost 1/2 of a second off my 1/8 mile time and was bringing it down every run until my clutch master cylinder went out! What is your best time on the track and what setup are you running? My best time is 9.5 sec in the 1/8 mile.

Your idle is too high, unless you have a ported engine. Idle speed shouldn't have that much effect on you eight mile performance, perhaps you were just becoming more skilled while driving. All holley tuning books I have read, and my personal experience, say the same general thing. You shouldn't have to back your idle screws out more than two turns, if you do then you have problems elsewhere. One example:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/1...y/index2.shtml

Just look around on the internet, there are hundreds of sites that say the same thing.

After i drilled a 1/8" hole in each throttle plate on my ported TII, it idled smoother and stronger than it ever did. I was also able to lower the idle speed from 1100 to 750. Sorry no times on my 80 yet, and I don't think i can compare the TII times to yours, apples and oranges there.

Marques

You can drop that idle down, if you can't there is something wrong, like a vacuum leak or something to that effect. My best time was 9.7, but i am going back this week expecting 9.5 or better. my car wasn't tuned at the time. and it had a big antifreeze leak from the water neck housing.

My 12a is street ported and I can get it to idle basically where ever I want it. I was not getting better at running the track I have ran many times before! Actually the longer I run the slower my times get if I dont tune the carb, because my shitty stock clutch gets warm and starts to slip! I have been all over the net and have a Holley tuning book.I dont see how their can be a prob if my times keep on dropping as I richen my idle mix. I had gone to the track thinking the other way around, leaner idle, richer jet, but had played with the idle mix and ran and my time dropped then I kept on richening and dropping my time until the clutch master cylinder prob.