LED Custom Tail Light Idea W/Pics - Help Appreciated
 

Hey guys, thanks for checking my thread out. I would much appreciate any help, tips, or hints you could give me would be awesome. Please read through my ideas and goals, and let me know what you think!

I've been looking for a while now and have yet to find any custom tail lights for an FB. I have an 84 GS RX7, and being young, I would like to make some custom LED tail lights for my car. I love the way LED lights look, operate, and the safety and reliability they offer.

Here is a picture of my FB, the way it looks right now (picture was taken in August but it still looks the same).

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=41324

I would love to do an LED board inside each of the 3 housings (reverse light, tail/brake light, and turn signal from inside to outside of the overall casing).

So I want to run a an LED board in the turn signal housing that would only light up when I turn on the blinker, which is pretty easily done. I will also run a LED board in the reverse light housing that would only light up when the car is in reverse (duh), which is still easily done.

The issue I am having is the tail light/brake light. To make the LEDs light up when my marker/running lights are on seems easy enough. But to make the LEDs light up brighter when I step on the brakes seems like a big issue. I have read up on this issue and may have a way to do it.

If we can figure this out i might consider building sets of these for other FB owners on here, if anyone else would be interested!!!

Here are a few pics for reference, I DO NOT CLAIM TO OWN ANY OF THESE IMAGES, RIGHTS ARE TO THE OWNER'S, LINK TO PICS UNDERNEATH EACH.

FC LED Conversion
http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagam...7wings_026.jpg
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010...vancouver.aspx

Audi A6 LED Conversion (Picked this because it's square and looks similar to what I'd like the finished product in my FB to look like)
http://www.carmatrix.de/pics/led_a6_02b.jpg
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ghts-for-C5-A6

Double the number of led's, light up half, all when u hit the brakes?

They DO have LED's that have two stages of lighting.

Hey Jhreg, I have seen that mod done before but it won't light up brighter, which isn't as safe in my mind and I don't want my car rear ended. If it is my last resort I will go with this option, so good suggestion.

Directfreak, I am going to look into that, because the main concept that I am using seems to be able to figure out the dilemma, so he must be using 2 stage LEDs.

Heres the link http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/...4a51c6cb29bb1/

I'm not much help when it comes to electrical stuff, but if you do these right I may be interested in buying a set.

The only way that it will work is removing the diffusers from the tail lights.

Yeah, this is why I want to figure this out for myself because it would be awesome to be able to offer other first gens some cool custom tail lights!

I agree, if you look at my last post you'll see the thread on a BMW forum where I got the idea from. He removes his diffusers and I will have to do the same if at all possible.

I'll hopefully be taking apart either my tail light or getting a junk set from a junk yard to practice with.

eh, i would have to see it to make a decision. i have thought about it. it could be really cool if done right

What if you just had one row of leds across the bottom for running lights, and have several rows above it for brake lights. Another idea would be face the bottom row upward shining into the housing so they wont appear as bright. I believe that's how the Cadillac STS's tail lights are set up, except they run up and down and the running lights face inward.

Some basics:

The brightness of an LED (or a bunch of em) is controlled by the current thru the LED.

This current is controlled by a resistor placed in series with the LED. That's different than with traditional incandescent bulbs, where the bulb filament works as its own current-limiting resistor.

If you put too much current thru an LED, it will burn out, so all LED's have a current-limiting resistor used with them. The exact value is determined by the LEDs specs and the maximum voltage used.

The trick to making the LEDs brighter when stepping on the brake, is to have the brake pedal switch provide for more current thru the LED (without burning it up).

If you look at the marker-brake light circuit for an FB, you can see that the original design used a two-filament bulb; a dim 8-watt one that's on whenever the marker lights are on, and a brighter 27 watt one that gets power only when you step on the brake pedal.

The trick you're trying to pull off is made more complicated by it being the positive side that's switched, instead of the ground side, but basically what you need is a circuit that operates the LEDs at a lower current when the marker lights are on, but increases that current when the switch is stepped on. This can be done with a couple diodes, and some carefully chosen resistor values. The exact values will depend on the type and number of LEDs you'll use in each 'lamp assembly,' and you'll have to determine the brightness desired.

You also have to be sure on an FB that the current used is enough to keep the 'stop light checker' happy, or else you'll get a warning light on the dash every time you step on the brakes.

Not impossible, but some electronics theory knowledge & a little experimentation would be required to do it right.

Hey cody, thats an excellent idea! It would definitely have a realy cool glow kind of look to it if I was able to line the edges of the tail light with LEDs and have them glow as running lights. I will have to look into that, thanks for the suggestion!

Thank you. I needed someone with an awesomely experienced rotary mind to help me with this concept. I will study the electrical FSM that I have and I am planning on taking my tail lights off sometime soon to get started with a wiring diagram.

I will also having a computer tech helping me with this project, and he has been working with LEDs for years now. So I will be showing him this thread and everything you guys have said and I will post up our work as money/time/work hours allow.

Thanks to all again!

Resistors, transistors and possibly a relay.

I did this on my 84's front turn signals with led bars a few years ago.

Hey Chris!
The turn signals are going to come second, after the marker lights. The two yellow front marker lights and the rear two red marker lights will be my first area to conquer.

We'll see how that goes, I will post the progress up here as soon as I can!

What you want is high brightness LEds with a PWM controller to lower the pulse width for the running light state.

http://www.rcaz.com/images/electroni...ive/instr4.pdf

A guy on hid-planet make the opti-drive ones and they are some of the best around.


Isaac

You could have one ring of LEDs for running lights and another (brighter) for brakes lights. Use a controller and power the controller via relays driven off the current lighting circuit. This way if you ever wanted to go back stock the wiring isn't all hacked up. Also, the LEDs would not be perfoming double duty.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...rake-turn.html

work smart, not hard.

Motorcycles put those in their tail lights. I'd get a few of the round ones and try to replicate that FC

The idea seems pretty cool. Id really like to see how they turn out!

I have seen something similar to these at work that we use on service vehicles http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-LED-REAR...item19cc3405bf

Hey Isaac,
I checked out your reference and it’s another awesome idea! I would need to follow any written instructions that come with the purchase of a controller. Again, I will have an experienced LED builder on my side so together we should be able to figure it out. I actually took the reference you put here into my build list on my computer, so thanks again!:nod:
Austin
Yeah, this is what I am looking at doing - either one ring of LEDs with brighter ones in the center for when I hit the brakes or using a controller to light them up brighter when I step on the brake. I also WILL NOT be hacking up the original wiring. I will pick up another full tail light harness from a junkyard near me. So I can use the original spade connectors (with a relay on the original wiring in the car) to connect original wire to custom set up tail lights.:icon_tup:
If I wanted to just finish the project because I can’t get to a point to figure it out, I will do this. But I am determined to learn through this project. And not only learn through it, but come out with a custom, one-of-a-kind set of tail lights.:gwink:
I’ll keep posting about them, don’t worry!! And hopefully if I write up a good enough thread I could get it archived!:icon_tup:
Hey, thanks for the reference! I will check out some of these on eBay since I am an active member. If I can get my fingers on a set of these for cheap I might use them for research.:D

Heres an option I was considering on trying at one point. Instead of outlining the curve like Dan did, I was going to do either rotors or circles.

http://www.oznium.com/forum/topic231...light-led+tail

Rotors would be awesome!!! Now I really want to figure out how to do that Chris! I hope it would be ok if I used that idea because that sounds like it could be awesome! The credit will be entirely yours, I will not take someone else's idea without proper credit, they call that plagiarism where I'm from and that's baaaaaaaad news.

Update guys, I need some more rotary help. Here are some pictures of FB tail lights (not my pictures). I was down visiting my FB in storage and noticed that there are 4 bulbs.... for 3 housings.... 2 in the center housing which is the place I've been having the issue with figuring out the LEDs. In case that didn't make sense, there is a running light and a brake light (if I am correct, please adjust me if I'm wrong).

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1326601569

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1326601569

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1326601569

THESE IMAGES ARE FROM SELLERS CURRENTLY ON EBAY, I DO NOT CLAIM THE RIGHTS TO THE PICTURES, I GOT THEM FROM A SIMPLE EBAY SEARCH

So new idea, credit to Chris, is making a formation with two rotors per tail light for running lights, and when I step on the brakes, having the entire tail light light up. So people behind me would be seeing two rotors in each tail light and a bar of LEDs when I step on the brake. It sounds awesome and I'll draw up a sketch for us all to look at and critique.

I like where this is going.

Real fast idea using paint with the rotary running light idea. Got the image from Polak Graphics for the rotary and the I Rotor My RX-7 is a sticker of theirs.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1326607922

Again, really crappy 5 minute paint job but it gets the point across. Would this not be awesome??? :jump:

Don't do rotors, that's so cheesy.

I like the rotor idea. But change the position of the outer rotor, and mirror it of course.

Haha perfect timing guys. Who would like to see rotors for running lights and a LED bar for brake lights, or just line the outside for the running lights??

And I would change the position of the second rotor, probably so a flat side up and it would be pointing down. To simulate movement. Or i could change the position of them all so they seem to rotate through an entire cycle from right to left...

Rotating as a turn signal would be amazing. Personaly if i got a set i would prefer just solid LEDs as the light.

this. Like, REALLY cheesy

Real challenge for you; For the turn signal, make the "rotating" rotor move across the lamp lens, sort of like the mustang 'strobe' brakes.

If you're gonna go cheesy, go Limburger, you know? Whole hawg, or none at all.

Haha, I agree DD.

To do the rotating rotor I'd need a controller and an extremely experienced LED builder to help with it. And it would double the cost in my mind.

So I'll be sticking to some sort of pattern like an outline of the housing for running lights and a large block of LEDs in the middle for when I hit the brakes.

Just so you guys that I'm not just farting in the wind here with this project, I borrowed some soldering equiptment from the builder that will be helping me with this project. i practiced yesterday by soldering a pair of broken headphones and they turned out pretty good!

I have the white LEDs on the way right now and I will start with the marker lights I'm thinking, then graduate to the reverse lights after those 4 are done.

Only issue with that idea is that I want to remove the trim on my car because it is starting to peel off and it looks really worn. If i do this I will want to shave the markers down and I dont know if I will take away any space for LEDs or not by doing so... And in any case, the area available without modding the case is soooooo small I'll only be able to put about 3 in there anyways.

These are another style of tail lights that we use on regular road tractors http://www.gemplers.com/product/AX44...&ci_sku=AX44RL

These are pretty cool! I can see that in the center there are different LEDs that serve a different purpose than the outside ring. It says its a "Stop/Tail/Turn" light so it serves all purposes. Only issue with these is where to mount?!? I measured the tail lights and they are only about 4 3/8" tall at their very tallest, and that's not including the contours of the inside lens.

Thanks for the reference bad 83, these are pretty cool :nod:

For an update, I picked up 2 6x8" sheets of Perfboard to start cutting out for the project! Will hopefully get to the storage unit to get all the lights off and start on this bad boy soon.

Only issue I'm having now is, I plan on doing an FC alternator swap and a FC FMOC swap too... stupid forum with it's wealth of knowledge that makes me wanna constantly upgrade the car :crzyeye:

With a new job and new funds, comes great responsibility.

No, with new job and new funds comes the ability to spend more on the car at a much faster rate.

I agree entirely.

Easy there SpiderMan :lol: Also, thanks for the props. I've had my FB for 8 years, and I probably have between 8-10 grand in it. I know how you feel :D

I think the round style leds would look the best, but that's my opinion.

Awesome bad 83, sounds good, thanks for the opinion - it's appreciated. :nod:

I'm plannin on going down and getting every light off my car except my headlights to start this project, should be fun!

How about pulling the back off the mazda light units and mounting these in front of the colour sections of the tail light unit.

So one for the inicator, two for brake and one for reverse.

They are only 70mm in diameter and might fit inside the lens area?

LINK: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/2021...d-LED-DRL.html

Probably not going to give you the exact pattern you wanted though.......

Hey 12A, those would look awesome. But with 4 lights per tail light, it would be like $78.00 + to get one light done, so like $156+ just for lights. I have it calculated at about $100 for a custom look so far. I will keep this in consideration though, thanks for the suggestion!

You're in the calendar if I'm not mistaken, in the middle somewhere... I don't have it on me, that's why I'm being vague. I'm January, that's why I'm asking..

think the SA guys would like this, might have an extra tail light bezel in my parts stash i could lend if there's any interest

Hey there, I would be extremely interested in building a set for SA guys. Especially since there's a cherry red SA in my area for $750 on CL that I'm looking at getting :nod:

So yeah BrGreenSA, if you have an extra one that you would want to lend to this project I will be more than willing to mock up a set for the SA's.

I am going down to the storage unit tomorrow to find a coolant leak, look in a junkyard for a S4 FC FMOC and a S4 water pump housing (to trade my cast iron one out for aluminum), and I will be taking all my lights off to get her started!!! :nod:

You keep coolant leaks in your storage unit?

I usually just throw mine away.

Hahaha yeah, I need to get rid of that one DD :nod:

Here's how far I am today guys...

Here is the perfboard I got from RadioShack. Only $7.25 for the two of them.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1327365006

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1327365006

Painted perfboard. Just used some Rustoleum metallic finish spray paint.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1327365006

Both painted perfboards.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1327365006

LED's with resisters.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1327365006

I'd try superflux LEDs. A lot brighter.

going to subscribe to this since I am working on a similar project on my SA until I can get a set of 2011 RX8 tails.

try these, I use them on my reef
http://ledsupply.com/creexml.php

Yeah Chris, I am going to use the superflux piranha 5mm 10,000mcd lights when I do the tail lights. The ones I have pictured above are ones I got for cheap for experimenting. I will probably use these for my marker lights, just to try it out. Will post up more pics after tomorrow night!

Sounds good, when I get home from work tonight I'll have a rummage through my parts boxes because I am pretty sure I have a spare left side one, with lens, although it might not be in the best of shape.

Official first post of build
 

Sounds good, I will return it to you after I take some measurements and plan out wiring and such! It doesn't matter if it's not in good shape, I'll make it work :nod:

I was able to find that pesky leak. I think I burned through my water pump gasket on a long trip with the 12a beehive, that’s why I’m gonna do a FMOC swap sometime soon as well. Glad I finally found that out, planning on an aluminum FC water pump housing swap as well.

OOOOK, let’s down to business guys.

THIS IS THE OFFICIAL FIRST POST OF THIS BUILD, EVERYTHING WILL STEM FROM THIS POST FORWARD

Rear of my 1984 Mazda GS RX7

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43477

I got all my lights off the FB, and I need some advice from all of you with rotary experience. Here are pictures that I edited off of the Electrical FSM I downloaded from here on the forum for my year (1984). These are the 12a pictures (my engine) and I have heavily erased and edited portions to make it clearer for myself and you guys.

This is the pic for the running lights. All marker lights are on, turn signal running light on, and tail running light on. There would be a total of 8 housings (markers, turn signals, and tail lights), and 10 bulbs running (1 light x 4 marker bulbs, 1 light x 2 turn light bulbs, and 2 x 2 tail light bulbs = 10 bulbs).

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43478

Here is the setup for the brake, turn, and reverse lights. Where it gets hairy.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43479

So let’s discuss this. There are 3 wires that run to each of the turn signals up front, and 3 wires that run to the tail/brake lights in the back. Here’s a crazy test I decided to do, and it has really confused me as to the function of these 3 wires. I know the Black wires are a ground, which is clear on the FSM.

Front Turn Signals Original Wiring
(Left+Right)Black = Ground
(Left+Right)Red/Green = Running Light Power in 8W bulb filament
(Right)Green/Orange and (Left)Green/Red = Turn Signal Power in 27W bulb filament

If I all 3 of the Black, Green/Orange and Red/Green wires are connected in the left front blinker assembly, the unit functions as it should and has a running light and a bright turn signal. Following is a test of the different wire combinations and what they do to the car and the bulb, quite interesting to study. It was done with the turn signal on, because that is where I knew I would have the issue.

Blk + Gr/Or + Red/Gr = Bright turn signal, regular blinking
Blk + Gr/Or = Bright turn signal, regular blinking
Blk + Red/Gr = Bright solid light with no blinking in front, fast blink in the back like the front bulb is burnt out.
Red/Gr + Gr/Or = Weak turn signal in front, fast blink in the back like the front bulb is burnt out.

Should be correct, after doing extensive homework with the wiring diagram I believe that I have the concept right. So the wiring on the front turn signals will be as follows:
Black + Red/Green will be the combo for one row of LEDs that serve as my running lights.
Black + Green/Orange will be the combo for 2 rows of LEDs that serve as my turn signals.

I will leave them all plugged in for when they are operational so that I do not have to do anything silly. I will probably arrange the LEDs in this fashion so that the middle is running lights and the top and bottom rows will be blinking turning signal lights:
(o)(o)(o)Turning(o)(o)(o)
(o)(o)(o)Running(o)(o)(o)
(o)(o)(o)Turning(o)(o)(o)
================================================== ========
Now For The Rear
================================================== ========
Rear Tail Lights Wiring
(L+R)Black = Ground
(L+R)Red/White = Reverse Light in both 27W reverse light bulbs
(L)Green/Red and (R)Green/Orange = Turn Signal Light in 27W turn signal bulbs
(L+R)Red/Green = Running Light in 8W tail/stop bulb filament
(L+R)Green = Stop Light in 27W tail/stop light bulb filaments

This will probably be my setup for the rear LED pattern, due to simplicity and functionality. I think it will work best and be the easiest to complete and figure out:
(o)(o)(o)Running(o)(o)(o)
(o)(o)(o)Stopping(o)(o)(o)
(o)(o)(o)Stopping(o)(o)(o)
(o)(o)(o)Stopping(o)(o)(o)
(o)(o)(o)Running(o)(o)(o)

This is to the best of my knowledge and going off of the FSM, please let me know if there is an issue due to me building on these wiring diagrams I have here. Any input is highly appreciated, thanks for the help and the feedback guys!

Rear tail light housing.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43480

Back of rear tail light housing.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43481

Brake/Tail light bulb connection.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43483

Turn light on rear housing.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43484

Brake/Tail Light bulb mounted.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43485

Back of rear tail light connector.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43486

Turn light.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43487

Turn light without cover.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43488

Back of turn light.

https://www.rx7club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=43489

What if we just put little candles inside the housings? Then would be all flickery and romantic for the ladies... Just kidding

Might be a bit late with this notice, as I'm just now catching up on the thread... but you might want to take an ohmmeter to your painted perfboard before you get too far along.

Many metallic paints are partially conductive. If the one you used is, you'll have some serious shorting issues. Better check it before you invest a ton of build time!