(IGNITION) My DLIDFIS Install...w/ Pics and Observations
 

To Start off, i would like to thank Jeff20b for his writeup about DLIDFIS here at Jeff20b's Rotary Power Pages ... good work man, its great reading and easy to digest.

I decided to do this install because i was bored, and i knew that i'd end up modifying the Ignition somewhere along the line, and since i still cant drive the car (title problems.... i need to title this car, cause i have no title basically)... i may as well do it all now. So at first i thought that i didnt have the igniters. As it turns out, i did, because when i bought my car, it came with a 1980 motor complete, and a 1983 motor complete, and when i put the 1983 motor in the car, i used the 1980 dizzy and ignition because it was plug 'n' play at the time. So i had 2 J109's and 2 J105's.... i then purchased 2 more j109s' for $15, and had all the igniters i needed.

To start, i mounted the 2 leading igniters on a bigass computer heatsink that i had from my casemodding/overclocking days of computers.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...S/DSCF0028.JPG

and then i mounted the trailing igniter on a smaller heatsink that i also had lying around ( i had to mount the trailing igniter off the dizzy because a) the pickup wires come all the way out to the fender, and b) the 1980 dizzy does not have the provisions to mount it. i then searched for a place to put this contraption i made, and i then realized that with some creative bending of my bracket, i could use the stock 1980 igniter box bracket to hold shit down. I Gutted the igniter box and cut the back panel (aluminum) until my heatsink assembly would fit, then i bolted it up, and bolted the whole enciilada in place of the stock ignition box. I left the 2 stock coils as leading, and mounted the Trailing coil (spare i had) in a stock Small Block Chevy coil bracket behind the drivers side strut tower where the hot start assist motor used to be.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...S/DSCF0034.JPG

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...S/DSCF0033.JPG

In terms of wiring, i followed Jeff20b's directions, and this schematic:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...IS/dlidfis.gif

For ignition wires, i chose MSD 8.5mm SuperConductor wire, that i got for $23 in a 25' Roll from Summit. I also got 2 straight boots for the leading, 2 90 degree boots for the trailing, 4 "Socket" style boots, and used the stock two 135 degree coil boots for the leading coils. I measued what i needed for each wire very carefully, and made all my wires. As it all turns out, i dont even need wire seperators because it all turned out so damn well. Hell, i even used the stock seperator for the coil wires.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...S/DSCF0031.JPG

After all that was done, i turned the key... and nothing... wouldnt fire for shit, the coils would spark furiously... shooting thick blue sparks at anything that was within 4 inches of them... but still no spark at the plugs. As it turns out, the 2 leading plugs were carbon fouled and provided no resistance, so the spark wasnt jumping, so i threw in a set of the old plugs and she fired RIGHT up and idled nicely. Sounded a little smoother too. In short, it revs quicker, sounds better, runs a little leaner, starts MUCH more easily... like after 2 cranks, and this motor barely ever used to start.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...S/DSCF0029.JPG

A farewell from the modded beast... there are a few more pics in that directory if you wanna look: http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7/DLIDFIS/

-Kurt

nice work man! :bigthumb:

Got a question..... what did you use for the connectors that are circled in this pic?

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...postid=1473481

the stock connector to the igniter, heavily modified by a hacksaw blade.... just cut all that molded shit off the connector. ;)

I'm surprised no one else ever thought of using that spot for thr trailing coil....aren't you a liitle afraid that the length of the coil wire is too short, though? The engine is going to rock even with the "plate" style mounting bracket it has down below...:confused:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...S/DSCF0031.JPG

Damn dude, that shit looks GOOD!! Something I can apprectiate, making all my own stuff too :). I really like the heatsink idea, I have a few spares of those myself...Hmmm. The only reason I havent setup mine is I didnt have an idea for the ignitor plate (that and Im lazy ;)). Anyway, looks DAMN good :). I really like the plug wires too. I need to make my own wires too...Anyone like the Accel wire? Or are the MSD wires better? Jacobs? Anything?

~T.J.

The stock connectors from your 80 ignition? Too bad I don't have an 80 engine to cannibalize. Does anyone have any ideas on where I can get two connectors like this?

the connectors are the ones that go through from the inside to the outside of the distribuor... and connect to the back of the igniters.

these came off a 81-85 dizzy, but both style can be used, you just have to cut it down like i did anyway.

another thing that works: a 16-20 gauge Butt Splice connector flattened a little bit and with the plastic overhang cut off on one side.

RMD: Thanks, the idea just came to me one day, and i was like... Damn, lemee do this.

Yeah, it does look good. Reading that reminds me that I need to make my own wires when I go direct fire as well (I need new wires anyway), so what were the part numbers from Summit? I looked there and all I could find were the rolls of wire...I couldnt find ther terminals and the boots? Thanks :).

~T.J.

1 (MSD-3301)
1 (MSD-3311)
2 (MSD-3322) but i reccomend 3 (these are the socket ones... i forgot to add one to my order, so i had to use the stock coil boots and re-use some termnials)
1 (MSD-34019)
1 (MSD 3503) i highly reccomend the stripper/crimper, it makes making the wires nice and easy.

good luck with your setup, i hope it turns out well.

Edit: funny, my next project is the one you just finiehed... getting rid of the water/oil "cooler" for an air/oil cooler.

Haha...That is kinda funny. Thanks for the part numbers :)

~T.J.

Nice job jutny! Lookin good! :bigthumb:

I've got all the stuff sitting around to do the mod myself, just a little fuzzy on one point mentioned on jeff20bs site, someone wanna clear this up for me?;


DO NOT try to use the stock harness as-is to run the Trailing ignitor output alongside the Leading pickup signal because it won't work! The black w/ white stripe wire is shared between the Leading and Trailing T connectors. They were connected together so Mazda could save a few cents per harness by reducing the amount of wires in it running over to the coils (it also saves weight and is less wear on the connections when the engine vibrates). Hey, it works great for a stock single fire system, but don't use it for DLIDFIS. That's why I recommend building a completely new harness for the Trailing ignitor and using a shielded cable for the Leading pickup. Gutting the stock harness to use the T connectors on both Leading ignitors is ok to do too.

Actually, I think with where my coils are (on the drivers strut tower), I would end up with:

(2) MSD-3311
(3) MSD-3322
(1) MSD-34019
(1) MSD 3503 (It looks pretty cool, and its only $4 :))

Anyway, thanks a lot man :). I think Im gonna go with MSD. I was gonna go with Accel again, but after looking in the right spot, I found all the MSD stuff I needed. I still cant find the Accel stuff. Oh well. Ill settle for red wires with grey boots...I guess they dont have to be yellow ;).

~T.J.

PS - Anyone suggest against MSD wires? What do you guys reccomend? I thought I heard of MSD wires "burning up" or something?

RMD< no problem bro... and good luck.

Zulu: no idea, thats why i used the 1980 dizzy, because of the wiring and where it came out. Sorry.

85rx7gs: thanks ;)

Its easy, and definatly worth it. I'm very happy with mine. Nice looking DLIDFIS setup, I'm gonna do that someday.

By the way, how much wire do you ahve left from that 25' roll? Could you make a second set of wires? maybe just a stock set?

~T.J.

PS - I really like my air/oil cooler also ;).

there is ~15' left from the roll.

meaning you would have enough to do 2 of these.

and a few dirt-bikes;)

WE have the same KEYBOARD!!!!! THATS AMAZING !.... sweet setup btw never seen that befor, what does DLIDFIS stand for ?

dual leading ignitor direct fire ignition system, i think :confused:

On a side note, with DLIDFIS, what could be used to shield the new harness? I think jeff recommends using microphone wire, but I haven't been able to find any anywheres. Anything else work?

how does it affect preformance and is it an expsensive mod?

shielded twisted-pair stranded wire should work. You can probably get this at your local electronics store. You know, the kind of store run by geeks not sales people.

:withstupi
Haha, thats great :)

~T.J.

PS - I have that same keyboard too :).

Doh, I knew I should have saved that hugeass Alpha HS from my OCing days. Hee hee... saw this on the [H]F but decided to comment here; nice work man. I am so going to be ending up doing this as well... ah... once I'm in the same zip code as my babies again. :(

Though this brings to mind a thought... I keep seeing the turbo guys talking about running no trailing / lead split... and I just have to wonder if that has any bearing for us less fortunate NA boys. Then again, maybe I should go ask them. ;)

Thanks Jutny. Your setup looks really good. :)

Zulu, all that means is that it's a good idea to build a new harness for the Trailing ignitor, and to not use it to carry the Leading pickup's signal over to the Leading ignitors. I also used to recommend shielded wire. That was back in '01.

By the way, I still haven't switched over to shielded wire. I used to get a slight missfire, but it was caused by a low voltage condition because my ignition wires were just barely good enough for a points igniton system back in '74, and caused a voltage drop through the key switch which reduced the alt's 14 volts down to 13.1 or so at the ignitors and coils. I wired up a 30 amp 12 volt relay from Radio shack and that took care of the problem. The missfires completely stopped. This is just my personal opinion, but I don't think shielded wires are really needed. However, if you experience missfires and everything else is up to par, then by all means try shielded cable.

About running no split on L and T: if you're carbed, don't do it! It'll screw up the flame propagation. You can only get away with 0º split if you're fuel injected. However, with DLIDFIS, maybe Trailing has been made irrelevant because Leading sort of is like a late Trailing spark? I'm going to test my engine with and without Trailing while driving and let my butt dyno tell me if I lose or gain power without Trailing running. Running without Trailing a while ago almost seemed like it had more power, but maybe my mind was playing tricks on me. Well, this time I've got a switch to cut the Trailing circuit on the fly. I'll have to remember to wire it up tomorrow before I tow a friend's REPU.

good stuff, thanks. :)

If someone can resize some pics for me i would like to post some pics of my ignition also. Mine has a 40 amp relay and gets pwr directly from the battery like jeff20b was talking about. Any ways if someone could volounters to resize these i could e mail them to you and you could resize and send em back then i could get these up. Please help.

CJG

Ill do it if you give me your 79 ;). Actually, for real, Im not home, but when I get home, I can resize them and post them for you if you want...Just make sure there arent too many of them cause I have to upload them with dial up :(. Anyway, email them to tjay31584@hotmail.com

~T.J.

i was going to do that, but then i decided it wouldnt be an issue. I can always do it later if i so desire.

Hmm... why, exactly, would flame propagation be different between EFI and carbed applications? Fuel / air mix is a fuel air mix... it's not like it's running gasoline direct injection. And the DLIDFIS is just providing a hotter spark, not changing the timing... unless I'm misunderstanding something *BIG*.

Hey guys, my Trailing ignition made no difference whether it was turned on or off during cold engine start-up and while running on the choke while cold. Also no difference for warm engine start-up and low load driving situations. No difference for high load driving such as towing. High RPM driving up a hill had a slight difference; there was an extra sound that could be heard with the secondaries open that would appear when the Trailing was switched on, and then quit as soon as Trailing was switched off. The difference in power could not be felt.

So in other words, if you've got 0º and 180º sparks on your Leading plugs (like we all do with DLIDFIS and many other direct fire ignition systems), the Trailing ignition is about as usefull as an SUV.

My butt dyno might have felt an increase in power with Trailing switched on, but again, my mind could have been playing tricks on me (there was a slight difference in sound only heard at higher RPM). You are all welcome to experiment with stuff like this if you want. I just wouldn't lose any sleep over a failed Trailing ignitor or coil. Well, not any more. :)

Kenku, just ask Evil Aviator about stuff like that. According to him, there is a difference between efi and carbs and flame propagation.

Yeah, suppose I'll have to. Sent a PM off to Rice too... *shrug*

Ok guys, here are the pictures that RotorTuner requested that someone resize and post. His setup sure is looking nice. It looks like he did a good job. I bet it works well too :).

~T.J.

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

EDIT: The forum is being stupid and I cant upload the pictures...

Ok, well I gave up trying to upload the pictures to the forum. Its still being lame. I uploaded them to my CarDomain site. So, without further adu, here they are (finally)...

~T.J.

EDIT: If these are too small, I can get bigger ones.

http://images.cardomain.com/installs...63_91_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/installs...63_92_full.jpg

Wassup with the little relay between the ignitors?

I know I read what it was for at some point, I just dont remember...

~T.J.

EDIT: Anyone else notice that when you use the "Post Reply" box at the bottom, it automatically shows your sig now?

the relay is to power the ignition directly from the battery, instead of from the stock wiring.

i was going to do that, but then i decided it wasnt worth all the trouble.

Jutny cant wait to see it ;)

Hopefully you can get to the meet by then.

Nick

nick,

i sent off my application to Broadway title today, overnight. They say 7-10 days from when they get it to get your shit back to you. So 10 days from tomorrow is next friday, which means i could then go to the DMV and get my car registered... allthough i'll probably also have to call out of work (what a shame).

this whole registration thing is such a fucking headache.

New Jersey is a bastard state, if this were NY, i would have had it registered 3 weeks ago and on the road now.

how bout that snow though? :p:

Hey TJ thanks for posting those for me. A note:
I used 10 guaage wire through out my construction. i know its probably over kill but with something thats going to be moving a lot of juice at more than 10k rpm i didnt want any thing getting warm or melting down. And i think running the relay helps that way it eliminates, at least in my case really old wiring and its nice so that your not running all that juice through your old wiring harness. Easy to work on too. I think the whole set costed me about 200 bux. With the 2 coils, making my own MSD super conductor wires. also i converted over to the power towers on all of it, no more of the push in type.

CJG

I was wondering what those things were on top of the coils...Any more information on those?

~T.J.

yeah, i realized after i placed my order from summit that i could get the power towers... but i like the way it all turned out, so no real regrets.

however, i may switch the power over to a relay when i do the same for the E-Fan conversion.

LOL snow sucks....and work sucked, :( So you should make it to the meet though....I want to see it!! If not Ill see it at work :p:

And good luck with that DMV shit :bash:

Nick

Hey jutny, let me know how it goes when you get your title. I may have to go through the same proccess for another car, this would be interesting info to have. thanks,

http://home.earthlink.net/~jutny/RX7...IS/dlidfis.gif

When looking at this schematic, are you seeing the back of the ignitors or the front? Because when looking at the front of the ignitor it goes C B then -S G+ .:confused:

You know - the mazspeed forum folks have been asking me to get off of my ass and show the setup Carl and I did. With all of this being shown - I think I might just ignore work for a little bit and try and get it done for tomorrow. :D

i guess you're looking at the back.

what i never figured out was wether the polarity of the pickup feed mattered or not.

Good question, I think i'll wait for Jeff20b to answer. :)