Turblown

iTrader: (12)

I see a lot of people complaining about not making low end torque/power and figured I would share. This was for fun, and we didn't get to complete the run as it was out of fuel injector( 98% IDC). This is a 2 rotor on stock ports running E85 with out TDX61 turbo system, v mount, Adaptronic E440D Select, aem coils, 3.5" exhaust, ID1000/2000s etc. All one needs to do is run a medium frame turbo @ high boost. The run was finished @ 481rwhp/396rwhp @ 22psi, and fuel pressure was later raised to 5 bar. It also survived the weekend of roadcourse racing.

wangracing

Very impressive. Cannot wait for the arrival of my TDX61R. Only plan to push 20psi, but anything remotely like those results will be epic.

Havoc

So did you run 30psi the whole weekend ?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

of course the 30 psi of boost is the key to the big power number at 4100... and alcohol is the key to higher boost, in this case E85/ethanol.

just for fun i did my fuel/power calculation...

E85

two 1000 primary
two 2000 secondary

Gross injector cap 6000 CC/Min

Net Injector Delivery

minus 8% as duty cycle was 92%
minus 13% lag

5116 CC Minute Net Injector Delivery

5116 is 1.351 gallons per minute

1.351 GPM is 8.578 pounds per minute

adjust to E85 BTUs

8.578 X .708 = 6.081 pounds per minute

6.081 X 10.5 AFR = 63.85 pounds per minute air

63.85 X 14.471 = 924 CFM

924 CFM/ 1.92 = 481 rotary rwhp (SAE)

the dyno was done at STD correction so the SAE hp was

481 X .97995 = 471 SAE.

given that there are always many variables final numbers are of course only approximate.

running 30 psi w a rotary is always an eye opener.

i may have recounted this before on the board but it is worth repeating:

this last winter Luke Stubbs was dynoing a Genesis coupe (turbo 4 cyl, 2L) w a GT3076. the best he could do on pump before running into detonation was 420 rw. he drained the tank, filled it w half pump and half E60 (winter blend in Green Bay) and made 570! all due to being able to run higher boost which is just what Elliott did.

yet another success for alcohol, it isn't just for breakfast anymore.

howard

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

This is the first car I've ever dyno tuned on E85, and it is definitely very impressive. Not only is it extremely hard to detonate, but the engine coolant temps stay SO LOW. This stuff is a must for any track car in my opinion. We ran 27 psi at the track, and the water temps never went over 190 degrees F. I would have to look at the datalog, but I know for a fact on the the dyno it was never over 174F @ 22psi.

Here is the final dyno pull @ 22psi.

We intend to go back for some more dyno tuning later, and eventually see how much power the turbo will make @ 30+psi.

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

Howard, just an fyi but at 43.5 psi the ID1000 flows 1015 cc/min and ID2000 flows 2225 cc/min making the total max flow 6480 cc/min. So your numbers should be scaled by 8%.

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Now that I'm running E85 my water temps never go above 176f here in South Florida, I'm running same 1000/2000 injector combo and @25psi my afr deeps to 10.2 afr. Running dual Aeromotive 340 base with base fuel pressure at 60psi.

Below 19 psi afr are around 11.5, I Need to pull fuel above 19 psi and raise boost another 3 psi to reach 28psi to compare with my 28 psi fuel map.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Luis,

Do you have a dyno plot of your final run? I haven't personally dyno tuned one at the 25+ psi range, and I would really like to see the torque curve..

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Elliot

I have it, I will post it later on today this is for race fuel. I haven't taking it back to dyno to see what E85 does at same boost.

Wildman923

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting results, out of curiosity what type of afrs were being pushed under boost? Been hearing of great results when tuned to around 12 to 1 (.82 lambda).

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

I'll share my old dyno and log on e85 with microwreck lt10s, x4, bosch coils,
rb template street port intake, stock port exhaust, gt4094r with .85ar hotside,
twin walbro pumps, 4x bosch 1600cc secondary, and id1000 primary,
this was on hot texas august 105+* weather on engine that had
couple years of couple hundred drag and dyno passes, close to 40k miles
on that build

BLACK MAMBA

iTrader: (58)

Link to dyno sheet.

https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-d.../#post11505148

darkphantom

iTrader: (2)

u running with the ac?

killahrx7

i don't mean to sound like an *** but that torque number seems as if it was due to boost spike. just my 2 cents let me know if i'm wrong.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

It wasn't that was the first thing I checked. I can't remember which screen it is in the dynojet software, but its very obvious. The car also made nearly 300rwtq at the same rpm during the 22psi run.. Its completely believable to gain 100 more rwtq from 8 more psi.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If you look at the high torque turbo piston (gasoline) engines, you will see that they run very high boost out of small turbos at low rpm, and then taper them down. Otherwise compound turbos are really good for high torque if sized and controlled correctly.

wangracing

^^^^^ Has always been my strategy on piston engines. (Evo)

Plan top do the same with my 13B. Can run gear dependent boost tables with the MoTeC so will be hittkng it hard down low in the low gears and tapering towards redline, moreso in the higher gears.

Hope to get a somewhat similar curve out of the 13B.

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

to compare another dyno with the same setup on a cooler night at 20psi e85, as you can see on the log on previous post I ran 9 psi more on midrange and made more than 100ftp torque, both runs were on the same mustang dyno

allrotor93

iTrader: (126)

The ticket is stock ports

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

^If you like shifting at 7000 rpm, sure

Bwarrrrrp

A quick note on this, stoichiometric for e85 is much lower than any ulp petrol at approximately 10:1 AFR (I haven't bothered to interpolate from ethanol but it would be close to this figure). Therefore running above this is effectively throwing potential power away - max power would be less than this.

Actually...
FUELS DATA
......................................AFR......... .FAR..........ER........Lambda
E85 stoichiometric..........9.765.......0.10235...1... ......1
E85 max power rich........6.975.......0.1434.....1.40.....0.7143
E85 max power lean......8.4687.....0.118.......1.153....0.8673

Wildman923

iTrader: (1)

I mentioned 12.0:1 (gasoline/petrol based AFR ratio) due to that's the AFR measurement ratio that was used for tuning this engine. The info you posted is absolutely correct, however without including the corresponding information in gasoline based AFR's it's it's going to cause confusion for the majority of those reading this thread (those that don't fully understand the difference in lambda vs displayed AFR). This table will help further illustrate the difference in displayed AFR vs Lambda for different fuels included gas/petrol and E85.

Bwarrrrrp

I wasn't picking on you at all, you just said it the clearest and most efficiently. I'm not sure how to interpret that sentence other than that you seem to know particulars about this car. Were the AFR's done properly and according to E85 or is it running lean?

It's an interesting concept, because the repercussions of running lean means significant torque is lost. The idea of reducing boost to gain power might seem foreign but nonetheless that would be the effect. I don't expect ethanol to have exactly the same consumption loop as petrol but it would be fairly close.

smg944

iTrader: (34)

thats a nice tq hit a 4k rpms. would the turbo not run out all the way on 30psi?

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

They were running out of fuel injectors