RX7Club.com


Go Back   RX7Club.com > Generation Specific > 1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)

Welcome to RX7Club.com!
Welcome to RX7Club.com,

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join RX7Club.com today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-24-06, 03:10 AM   #1
Rogue_Wulff
Too old to act my age
 
Rogue_Wulff's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tulsa, Ok.
Posts: 3,019
Question WTF was Mazda thinking? (rant-venting)

I previously thought the beehive oil whatever-you-wanna-callit was Mazda's biggest blunder in the 1st gen. WRONG!
The lack of any form of low oil pressure warning device (guage, light, buzzer) in the 1979 model RX-7 tops the list, for now. Story as follows:
My buddy purchased a 79 with rather low miles (under 100K) that looked to only need a few minor things, and a fresh coat of paint. It had been parked for quite a while, so the previous owner rebuilt the engine, to insure everything was up to snuff. Since the guy who was selling it has a shop that deals with only Rotary engines, and stated he rebuilt the engine, we took him at his word. He has a fairly good reputation for doing quality work.
This particular engine ran great, no signs of smoke, and only had a minor issue with starting when warmed up, which I just chalked up to apex seals not fully seated. After having acheived approx 500 miles on the engine, the hot start issue totally disappeared.
~6000 miles later, the engine suddenly developed a knocking sound. Not good. Pulled it out, dropped the pan, lots of copperish looking chunks. Really not good.
Took the front apart, and as the front cover came off, my heart sunk when I saw the pinched o-ring. I knew it had to come apart, and parts were damaged. As I broke it apart, and removed the rear iron, I couldn't beleive what I saw. The rotor was chewed up from hitting the rear iron. The rear iron had marks/grooves from the rotor gear. Side seals, corner seals, and apex seals all had damage from the dancing rotor.
Removed the rear rotor, and saw the bearing had spun, but only 3/4 inch or so. The e-shaft journal was dark blue.
All total, both rotor bearings are wasted, as the front bearing was beggining to chunk up, and probably would have spun very soon. Both stationary gear bearings are worn, but not too badly. Both e-shaft rotor journals are blued, rear is worse.
This engine died needlessly, all for the lack of a low oil pressure warning device. Worst part is, a manual guage was planned for install 3 days after the doomed sound started.
I am utterly amazed that a simple o-ring can cause so much damage, and the lack of an oil pressure warning ever made it to the production line.
At the same time, I impressed by the fact that the engine ran as long as it did, with very little (if any) oil pressure. This is compounded by the fact that this car has been to several open track events for "Play days", and driven rather hard after the intial break-in period.


Sorry for the long rant, but I just *had* to vent.
This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members.
Register your free account today and become a member on RX7Club.com!
__________________
Rotary Engine = Simplicity at it's most Complex
With only 3 moving parts, what could be Simpler?
With 30 metal seals, and 30 springs, how can it be any more Complex? Easy, add Boost and/or Fuel Injection.....
Rogue_Wulff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 03:16 AM   #2
GavinJuice
Leave A Message
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MN
Posts: 1,454
did it not have an oil pressure gauge, i would think that would be the most crucial sensor to watch especially after a rebuild?
GavinJuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 03:17 AM   #3
GavinJuice
Leave A Message
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MN
Posts: 1,454
oops i see you were planning, but not even an electrical?
GavinJuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 03:24 AM   #4
Rogue_Wulff
Too old to act my age
 
Rogue_Wulff's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tulsa, Ok.
Posts: 3,019
In 1978, Mazda deemed a clock more important than an oil pressure guage. The rear housing is not even drilled for the stock guage.
Rogue_Wulff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 03:37 AM   #5
GavinJuice
Leave A Message
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MN
Posts: 1,454
instead it came with a stereo.......psh
GavinJuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 03:44 AM   #6
Rogue_Wulff
Too old to act my age
 
Rogue_Wulff's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tulsa, Ok.
Posts: 3,019
Radio/stereo was optional. Clock was placed where the oil pressure guage belongs, beside the tach. As my buddy said, "I could care less what time it is, I wanna know how the engine is doing". Besides, the damn clock doesn't even work 100% of the time.........
I know a lot of cars come without an OP guage, but they at least have a light, inspite of the fact that most people ignore it.
Rogue_Wulff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 08:19 AM   #7
Naegleria_Fowleri
Beware of my Flagella
 
Naegleria_Fowleri's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Muncie, Indiana
Posts: 3,303
Send a message via AIM to Naegleria_Fowleri
That is completely ridiculous. I didn't know they didn't come with an op guage. If I ever buy an SA, I know my first mod now.
Naegleria_Fowleri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 10:15 AM   #8
Tranquil
Wankle Waffles
 
Tranquil's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (1)

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,734
Send a message via AIM to Tranquil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normality_Glitch
That is completely ridiculous. I didn't know they didn't come with an op guage. If I ever buy an SA, I know my first mod now.
+1

and how accurate is my stock OP gauge? I was thinking of going aftermarket, but I said nahhhh.
Tranquil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 10:21 AM   #9
gsl-se addict
Moderator
 
gsl-se addict's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (2)

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Posts: 3,756
Send a message via MSN to gsl-se addict
The SAs don't have any kind of oil pressure gauge or warning light. I just put a set of 3 cheap gauges when I had my SA (oil temp, oil pressure, amps). I would strongly recommend putting an oil pressure gauge of some kind on SAs. Doesn't have to be expensive/accurate as anything is better than nothing.
gsl-se addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 10:47 AM   #10
Rx-7Doctor
Senior Super Moderator
 
Rx-7Doctor's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (9)

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 10,260
The only thing they have is a low oil level warning.
__________________
RX-7Doctor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rx-7Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 10:52 AM   #11
ChasRX
Insane Burnout
 
ChasRX's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 561
I agree. What were they thinking? I tapped in to the banjo bolt (front-mount oil cooler line) for an oil pressure send when I swapped an '80 SA engine into my '81 chassis. I couldn't believe that the SA engine didn't have a tap. Feeling pretty humble, I asked the local Mazda shop mechanics when I couldn't find a place to thread my oil sensor into. They told me that the '79 / '80 models lacked such. That's just lame and unacceptable, so I immediately proceded to tap the banjo bolt. At least I'd get a reading as my stock OP gauge is consistent; regardless the accuracy.
I'd rate water temp and oil pressure as my top two most monitored.
ChasRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 10:54 AM   #12
aussiesmg
Thunder from downunder
 
aussiesmg's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Convoy, Ohio, USA
Posts: 3,783
Send a message via ICQ to aussiesmg
I used a 25 pound low preasure warning light ,stock low preasure lights are only 5-6 pound, by then it's too late, with a big light fitting right in front of my face, (called a dummy light for good reason) It came on the engine got shut off immediately, saved my engine twice when oil lines failed on track days.
aussiesmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 11:00 AM   #13
j_tso
Insane Burnout
 
j_tso's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquil
+1

and how accurate is my stock OP gauge? I was thinking of going aftermarket, but I said nahhhh.
Like the temp gauge, it's not that great. It'll let you know when the shit hits the fan though.
j_tso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 11:02 AM   #14
rotarycrazy
Leave my avatar alone!!!
 
rotarycrazy's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spartanburg SC
Posts: 1,297
I need to get an OP for my SA since I am droping a FB motor in it soon that should be hopefuly not to hard to install.
rotarycrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 11:58 AM   #15
perfect_circle
Kentetsu's protégé
 
perfect_circle's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Land Of Confusion southern MI, USA
Posts: 2,570
Send a message via AIM to perfect_circle Send a message via MSN to perfect_circle
I<3 my FB's
perfect_circle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 01:05 PM   #16
trochoid
Old Fart Young at Heart
 
trochoid's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (3)

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St Joe MO
Posts: 14,287
Send a message via MSN to trochoid
I know the feeling. My very first rebuild, I forgot the front cover o-ring on a test build. 6 hours run time, mostly idling in the shop, I lost all 4 bearings and scored the e-shaft. Since it was basicly a practice motor, I wasn't too disappointed, but that was my best set of bearings.

Oh, and I did have have an opg that read 0, figured the sender was bad, oops.
trochoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 01:13 PM   #17
Rogue_Wulff
Too old to act my age
 
Rogue_Wulff's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tulsa, Ok.
Posts: 3,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiesmg
I used a 25 pound low preasure warning light ,stock low preasure lights are only 5-6 pound, by then it's too late, with a big light fitting right in front of my face, (called a dummy light for good reason) It came on the engine got shut off immediately, saved my engine twice when oil lines failed on track days.
I rigged up a similar light on another freinds racecar. Actually, 2 of them. I used low pressure warning light senders, and put one in the oil passage, along with a Stewart-Warner OP guage.
The other sender was installed in a block coolant drain location. Even a SW or atuometer temp guage won't give a warning when the coolant dumps.

The real ironic part about this SA engine dying such a horrible death, it still started and idled perfectly. About 2000-2500RPM, it sounded like 25 monkeys beating on the engine with hammers.
I dunno how it could run, with all of the apex seal, side seal, and corner seal damage.
Rogue_Wulff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 01:24 PM   #18
aussiesmg
Thunder from downunder
 
aussiesmg's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Convoy, Ohio, USA
Posts: 3,783
Send a message via ICQ to aussiesmg
It seems obvious to me, but who actually checks a gauge if you're driving at 10/10ths, a big bright light can't be missed. Hence shift lights are more important than tachs.
aussiesmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 01:30 PM   #19
perfect_circle
Kentetsu's protégé
 
perfect_circle's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Land Of Confusion southern MI, USA
Posts: 2,570
Send a message via AIM to perfect_circle Send a message via MSN to perfect_circle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue_Wulff
I rigged up a similar light on another freinds racecar. Actually, 2 of them. I used low pressure warning light senders, and put one in the oil passage, along with a Stewart-Warner OP guage.
The other sender was installed in a block coolant drain location. Even a SW or atuometer temp guage won't give a warning when the coolant dumps.

The real ironic part about this SA engine dying such a horrible death, it still started and idled perfectly. About 2000-2500RPM, it sounded like 25 monkeys beating on the engine with hammers.
I dunno how it could run, with all of the apex seal, side seal, and corner seal damage.
thats cause the 7 never loses.

and the rotary is a marvel upon mere mortal engineering.
perfect_circle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 01:30 PM   #20
Naegleria_Fowleri
Beware of my Flagella
 
Naegleria_Fowleri's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Muncie, Indiana
Posts: 3,303
Send a message via AIM to Naegleria_Fowleri
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiesmg
It seems obvious to me, but who actually checks a gauge if you're driving at 10/10ths, a big bright light can't be missed. Hence shift lights are more important than tachs.
I prefer a shift buzzer myself, but how many people bought SA's to drive wide open everywhere? Not as many as what did to drive around a lot. It would still have made more sense for them to have it along with the light. The more indicators the merrier, right? At least the safer, I'd say. And if I were designing a sports car, I think I would want all the gauges and indicators possible to monitor as much as possible.
Naegleria_Fowleri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-06, 01:33 PM   #21
Rogue_Wulff
Too old to act my age
 
Rogue_Wulff's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tulsa, Ok.
Posts: 3,019
I agree. But even a 3-4 PSI warning light *might* have saved this engine. A rotor dancing around on the e-shaft, slapping the housings, is unacceptable as the only factory oil pressure loss warning.


This engine was my first to solo on the teardown, and would have been my first build. I doubt it be going back together anytime soon. Probably just get a running used engine to install, while gathering parts to rebuild this one. It looks like $1000 will be needed, in order to do it right.
Rogue_Wulff is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content Copyright © 2007 by Internet Brands, Inc.
Inactive Reminders By Mished.co.uk