Driving style change when going from Torsen to KAAZ?
03-27-05, 08:36 PM
#26
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Well 1st off you bought one of the best diffs out there. While it may be locking sooner than stock the fact that it has locked should be the same as your stock when its locked. locked on accel is locked meaning engaged.Your stocker may not have engaged and those (stock torsn) have been known to brake under hopping burnouts and street drags wiith sstock tires...ask ITO and TurboMark57. The Kazz is a 1.5 not a full locking 2.0. Apex turn in and turn crap?????? I had to learn how to drive my 1st gen again after putting in the GSL 1.5 back in 1992.Kazz is very hard to brake.Thats why they are used for high HP and drags.your stock axle will brake 1st.This is a race diff and it will also need break in. The advantges should far out weigh the problems of never have used one. My GT2 has a locked rear...that doesnt like tight turning radius.Having a quality chunk is a bit different but thats about it.Pushing like a pig is more about overdriving or suspension than a locked rear.
05-04-05, 12:55 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by APEXL8T
While it may be locking sooner than stock the fact that it has locked should be the same as your stock when its locked. locked on accel is locked meaning engaged.Your stocker may not have engaged
05-04-05, 08:26 PM
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Damn Damon its symantics...... so how technical do you want all the answers to be. This is to explain but once again for Damon I will say engaged but the same effect as have one side compensate for slip by engaging to a positive traction.Damon wil opine on the torque ratio in which will serve your need.Oh yea and dont get a real locker if your into cones.......
Last edited by APEXL8T; 05-04-05 at 08:31 PM.
05-05-05, 08:57 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by APEXL8T
Damn Damon its symantics......
Here's an earlier link from Mark Ortiz articles that discusses many diff types here
Last edited by DamonB; 05-05-05 at 09:06 AM.
05-05-05, 08:31 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by DamonB
Torsens do not lock and unlock. They merely are capable of maintaining a certain torque ratio between the two axles.
Differentiating Differentials, by Mark Ortiz #326 - 03/03/04 10:18 AM
The Mark Ortiz AutomotiveCHASSIS NEWSLETTERPRESENTED FREE OF CHARGEAS A SERVICE TO THEMOTORSPORTS COMMUNITY March 2004WELCOMEMark Ortiz Automotive is a
The Torsen, or Gleason, is also two designs that have very similar properties. Both use worm gears in place of the spider and side gears of a conventional diff. The worm gears provide a very smooth, yet strong lockup under load, yet turn very freely with no load, provided they are not preloaded.
05-19-05, 09:16 AM
#31
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BTW, there is no such thing as "symantics"...
I think the discussion is on "lockup" characteristics and not if the LSD's "lockup".
It's implied that any LSD will "lockup".
DamonB is right.
A clutch-type LSD lockup characteristics is almost binary - it's either locked or free.
The Torsen has a lot more linear lockup characteristic.
This is not an argument on semantics; you guys are talking about two different things.
Arguing whether an LSD does "lockup" or not is rather moot.
-Ted
I think the discussion is on "lockup" characteristics and not if the LSD's "lockup".
It's implied that any LSD will "lockup".
DamonB is right.
A clutch-type LSD lockup characteristics is almost binary - it's either locked or free.
The Torsen has a lot more linear lockup characteristic.
This is not an argument on semantics; you guys are talking about two different things.
Arguing whether an LSD does "lockup" or not is rather moot.
-Ted
05-19-05, 10:00 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by RETed
A clutch-type LSD lockup characteristics is almost binary - it's either locked or free.
The Torsen has a lot more linear lockup characteristic.
The Torsen has a lot more linear lockup characteristic.
05-21-05, 12:43 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by RETed
BTW, there is no such thing as "symantics"...
I think the discussion is on "lockup" characteristics and not if the LSD's "lockup".
It's implied that any LSD will "lockup".
DamonB is right.
A clutch-type LSD lockup characteristics is almost binary - it's either locked or free.
The Torsen has a lot more linear lockup characteristic.
This is not an argument on semantics; you guys are talking about two different things.
Arguing whether an LSD does "lockup" or not is rather moot.
-Ted
I think the discussion is on "lockup" characteristics and not if the LSD's "lockup".
It's implied that any LSD will "lockup".
DamonB is right.
A clutch-type LSD lockup characteristics is almost binary - it's either locked or free.
The Torsen has a lot more linear lockup characteristic.
This is not an argument on semantics; you guys are talking about two different things.
Arguing whether an LSD does "lockup" or not is rather moot.
-Ted
logic study of logic: the study of ways of interpreting and analyzing theories of logic
and
study of meaning in language: the study of how meaning in language is created by the use and interrelationships of words, phrases, and sentences.
The word "engaged" i have used seems to interplay with the discription" lockup" such that a referenced site used it and "lockup" also used as a discriptive term in the manner in which I used for easier understanding (semantic) by the Torsen company itself:
What does torque bias ratio mean?
Torque bias ratio (TBR) represents the "locking effect" of the differential. More specifically, it indicates how much more torque is sent to the high traction wheel (or axle) then is sent to the spinning wheel. For example, when a differential has a TBR of 3:1, 3 times the torque the spinning wheel can maintain (75% of the total torque) will go to the higher traction wheel.
"Moot" is saying "engaged" and using the word "lockup" as an interrelationship of idea is not correct.
DamonB expressed that my using the term lockup is incorrect yet it is cited in use by definition. This is cool.... I retract the discription and the torque bias application defintion can be installed before my innitial reply.
DamonB.....I knew what you meant ..... as long as you can help the persons initial query it all good.
05-23-05, 09:58 AM
#35
Originally Posted by DamonB
Sorry, I left off an "n". It's "Weismann". The mechanical function of a Weismann type diff is somewhat similar to a cam and pawl but the Weismann uses caged rollers against an inner and outer set of cams rather than the "chiclets" of a cam and pawl. The operation of the Weismann type is more progressive, quieter, smoother, cooler and doesn't wear as quickly compared to the ratcheting action of a cam and pawl. I believe a Kaaz is just a cam and pawl diff.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...y=PN%2F4817451
Clutch pack type diffs are commonly called "Salisbury" types. I need to correct myself earlier when I said to the best of my knowledge most top level organizations are running Weismann type designs. There are some that do but they are far outweighed by the Salisbury users because it is so much easier to adjust the torque bias of the clutches in the Salisbury. Sorry for getting my proper nouns mixed up.
Some discussion of other diff types here
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...y=PN%2F4817451
Clutch pack type diffs are commonly called "Salisbury" types. I need to correct myself earlier when I said to the best of my knowledge most top level organizations are running Weismann type designs. There are some that do but they are far outweighed by the Salisbury users because it is so much easier to adjust the torque bias of the clutches in the Salisbury. Sorry for getting my proper nouns mixed up.
Some discussion of other diff types here
08-26-05, 01:22 PM
#38
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No, I haven't gotten to track mine since installing the KAAZ. But I can feel it on the street and autocross so I know it's going to understeer like crazy now. I think the ideal was apparently getting the locking ratio around 50-60% according to the 350 article. So you'd need to swap about half the plates I would think. I just hate to pull that damn thing out again since it's not a particularly fun job......... 
Plus, I assume you're drag racing would suffer since it's not locking as much.
Plus, I assume you're drag racing would suffer since it's not locking as much.
08-26-05, 03:19 PM
#42
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I assume yours pops pretty badly making sharp parking lot turns? That took some getting used to........thought it was going to break my halfshafts it felt so violent!
08-26-05, 04:06 PM
#45
decent article with kaaz mention and pics:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...8scc_proj350z/
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...8scc_proj350z/
09-06-05, 10:12 AM
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Yeah, I had come across that link earlier. That's why I was thinking I'd probably see a big improvement if I'd pull the diff out again and swap some more plates. Unfortunately I'm just too lazy for that...... 
Thanks for passing along the link though.
Thanks for passing along the link though.
09-06-05, 04:26 PM
#47
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Isnt kaaz a clutch typle LSD??
I would set it at 33% myself for a street car. Its far easier taking it out the 2nd time because you learned what to do the first time around.
I would set it at 33% myself for a street car. Its far easier taking it out the 2nd time because you learned what to do the first time around.
03-03-07, 07:02 PM
#48
tailhappy,
any updates on this?
i changed mine to 33% and i love it.
no more popping in slow turns. street manners are so much improved.
got rid of the slow speed turn understeering too. and it didn't hurt drag racing as i got a 1.51 short time!
one drawback, although i'm not 100% certain is from the kaaz, is going straight on the highway...give it gas...feels fine...let go of the gas abruptly, and it feels like car pulls to left from the rear, then back to right. like rear wheel steer. happen to you? my diff bushings are shot, and i'm waiting to put in the poly bushings, so maybe this "crap steer" is from that? don't know yet.
any updates on this?
i changed mine to 33% and i love it.
no more popping in slow turns. street manners are so much improved.
got rid of the slow speed turn understeering too. and it didn't hurt drag racing as i got a 1.51 short time!
one drawback, although i'm not 100% certain is from the kaaz, is going straight on the highway...give it gas...feels fine...let go of the gas abruptly, and it feels like car pulls to left from the rear, then back to right. like rear wheel steer. happen to you? my diff bushings are shot, and i'm waiting to put in the poly bushings, so maybe this "crap steer" is from that? don't know yet.
03-05-07, 08:13 AM
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No, like I said, I'm too lazy... I have noticed mine is loosening up significantly over when I installed it. I figure a few more miles and I might break it in to be 33% anyway...
I am a little nervous about when I can finally get back on the track again. I bet my drives out of the corner are probably going to be horrible. But on the flipside, I've started toying with drifting a little, and having a nice tight lockup is probably better for that.
I haven't experienced exactly what you mention, but I do have something similar. If I'm turning slightly while accelerating, it jerks the car fairly violently when you ease up on the gas enough for the clutches to start slipping again. Nails me on the street all the time. It's nearly enough to make you go into the next lane if you're not ready for it... I never got a 4 wheel alignment after installing the drag launch leading and trailing arms though, so that could well be part of the problem too.
I have noticed mine is loosening up significantly over when I installed it. I figure a few more miles and I might break it in to be 33% anyway... I am a little nervous about when I can finally get back on the track again. I bet my drives out of the corner are probably going to be horrible. But on the flipside, I've started toying with drifting a little, and having a nice tight lockup is probably better for that.
I haven't experienced exactly what you mention, but I do have something similar. If I'm turning slightly while accelerating, it jerks the car fairly violently when you ease up on the gas enough for the clutches to start slipping again. Nails me on the street all the time. It's nearly enough to make you go into the next lane if you're not ready for it... I never got a 4 wheel alignment after installing the drag launch leading and trailing arms though, so that could well be part of the problem too.
01-19-10, 04:07 PM
#50
what happen if I use redline oil 75w90 with frictioon modifier? is better than kaaz oil?
regards