RICE RACING

OK, What do all you guys run?

stock transistor (ignitor to coil)

capacitive discharge (ignitor to CDI to stock coil or aftermarket coil) either MSD, Crane, etc. On L & T or just L plugs

I am upgrading to CDI, one per plug (leading) and am interested in what other guys have done and what measured power increse they have experienced or "felt"

Lets see or hear of some results, so others can get the real story on wether this upgrade will suit them

RETed

All CDI...



-Ted

soul assassin

well my theory on stock t2 ignition failed me since i was detonating so i am going to run the stock coils with 3 msd's now and i will let you know how this dyno run turns out

spyfish007

I run stock ignitor -> Jacob's (leading only) -> stock coils (all)

I will upgrade my leading coil shortly while leaving the trailing coils stock.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

I run stock ignitor, stock coils, and the Crane HI-6R on the leading only. The R version is sealed and can take more shock and higher temps.

Did not get it for "more" power but to prevent/reduce misfires.

Sidestick

iTrader: (1)

What are you upgrading it to?

spyfish007

A Crane coil that is used in Motorcycles ... I don't have a part number handy.

RICE RACING

Hey If you find the part no. and where I can get one I would like if you can tell me

I am thinking of getting one of these and using the 2 Hi6s to fire all of my plugs as I run no split and only use two ignition signals this will be easy, and I believe the Crane can fire two coils in parrallel no problem.

Either that or I will just fire my L plugs with maximum power (one CDI and one PX92) or I will dived the signal over one stock coil and one PX92 (T&L) or use the coil you are talking about and fire T&L plugs with a reduced output as one box is triggering two coils.

I have always ONLY focussed on the L spark and getting maximum energy to these, I may start off with this and then set up a harness to divide the CDI to T&L asnd see what gives the best result?

spyfish007

Rice: I thought you were selling your car? I know you run no split and I am still debating it. It makes things easy when you run no split. The powerFC has some base/root level programing that puts 10 degrees of split at idle. I can do a trick and dial it out, but it is not a permenant or good solution. The reason I bring it up is that my car idles so much better with no split. Whatelse can you tell me about why people seem to think split is such a bad thing ....??

RICE RACING

spyfish007 I was selling it due to moving house and not being able to store it, but all is good now

The split thing is interesting subject, I have been able to try it in both regards, and I find it to be better with T&L firing together..I have done this with a PFC computer and found the same results, maybe some ECU's or some tuners are not looking at ALL the parameters when changing the timing, either total advance or split, to see what is causing power increases or decreases, from my experience I have found that T&L together is better for me..I run up to 590+BHP on pump gas in my road car.

THE ONLY issue with firing T&L close together I can find is that when people do this of different channels and there is the accuarcy of the ECU which comes into play that may cause the T to fire before the L which will cause slightly lower power or if it happens before to any great degree can cause more detonation than normal.

In general when T&L fire together you do not need as much advance because combustion happens so much faster and as a result the engine cannot take as much advance as you would run with some split.

spyfish007

Rice: Thanks for the info. I think there are two keys in the what you said. One is about ECUs and the channels they use. The other is about overall advance when you run zero split.

The crane coil I mention has one input and two outputs like the stock leading coil so it should be real easy to install.

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

This discussion of running zero split is interesting. This leads me to wonder if we could simply use the trailing ignition only, run two ignition boxes or one MSD DIS-2, and each signal fire a two post coil or two separate coils. This would eliminate concerns of trailing firing before the leading and of course there would be absolutely zero split.

This is essentially what the leading coil is doing now, firing two plugs. However, using the trailing would result in less coil wear/tear since they fire half as often as the leading.

Must be the beer talking.

spyfish007

You are correct in your setup. However not all ECUs give you total control over IGN timing ... ie PowerFC.

turbostreetfighter

have any of played with drilling out the traling hole? seems like it would work great especially if they are going to fire at the same time.

RICE RACING

To much gas transfer, it is bad thing to do becuse of where the plug is located relative to what is going on in the adjacent chambers.

RETed

Thought about it - got quickly squashed by my collegue at the time, Paul Ko.

If that answer by RICE RACING was too technical ...
The rotors spin and hit the trailing spark plug (hole) first.&nbsp Mazda engineering the hole to be small to keep compression loss at a minimum when the leading edge sweeps over the trailing spark plug hole first.&nbsp If you enlarge the hole, you'd be losing even MORE compression - bad for power.&nbsp Mazda has already tried this - there's an SAE paper on their findings...



-Ted

turbostreetfighter

hmm, that is interesting and makes sense. so what are the engines with 3 plugs per rotor doing?

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Ted,

It is more than loss of compression. If you look at where the previous chamber is within it's combustion process, you will see that hot pressurized gas could leak backwards. This could cause detonation of the next charge.

But when the leading apex seal reaches the leading plug, the exhaust port is already open, pressure is dropping, and the combustion process is most complete.

There is a site with engine animations that is very helpful to see how all of this works.

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/index.html

RICE RACING

This is where around 90% of your total power is derived from, so improvements made here will yield far greater gains than on the trailing.

I am tossing up wether to use my two HI6 boxes to trigger both L&T plugs? From what I can figure and from what people such as RX&.com say it will be more benifical to run ONE cdi unit and PX92 coil per plug (leading) instead of halving the energy over two coils when wired in parrallel, wither that or buy FOUR Hi6 boxes!

I am open to suggestions? At the moment I will go for maximum spark to the leading plugs, maybe set up a harness so I can "switch" between various setups & try to get some hard data on the differences?

0piston

iTrader: (9)

I maybe wrong but I thought Crane discontinued their dual-post coil. In any regard what about this setup, assuming that the msd ignition has enough power for two coils:

1 MSD Digital-6 plus supplying voltage for 2 Blaster HVC coils on the shared leading signal

1 MSD Dis-2 HO using both channels and supplying voltage to 2 Blaster HVC coils for trailing.

http://www.msdignition.com/

The Juice is Loose!

VELCRO SHOES

So whats the best Ignition setup for someone running their power fc on a single turbo setup?

waynespeed

Using the CD system with coils wired in parallel does reduce output, however series is even worst.

After trying to fire the leading and trailing (no split) using two MSD7AL units firing two MSD blaster2 coils each, I decided to add two 6a boxes for the trailing.
So the current setup is usin 4 ignition boxes and 4 MSD blaster2 coils. Each plug has its own coil and ignition AMP.

In the Wolf EMS V4 installation manual it recommends using single post coils versus the dual post (Wasted spark/leading coil 86-on) for maximum spark.


Unfortunately, I have no hard data on the results. This setup should be include in your "various setups" as I too would like to see the results.

waynespeed

Using the CD system with coils wired in parallel does reduce output, however series is even worst.

After trying to fire the leading and trailing (no split) using two MSD7AL units firing two MSD blaster2 coils each, I decided to add two 6a boxes for the trailing.
So the current setup is usin 4 ignition boxes and 4 MSD blaster2 coils. Each plug has its own coil and ignition AMP.

In the Wolf EMS V4 installation manual it recommends using single post coils versus the dual post (Wasted spark/leading coil 86-on) for maximum spark.


Unfortunately, I have no hard data on the results. This setup should be include in your "various setups" as I too would like to see the results.

RETed

You can get a Crane Cams HI-6DI&#178 - do you have such things?&nbsp This is a two channel unit like the MSD DIS-2...


-Ted