E85 in the RX-7 - sucessful conversion
07-15-06, 11:20 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by memmi
E85 is less efficient in that it has less power per unit than gasoline. However, it runs cooler, and reduces knock which allows you to run more boost. so for an NA car ethanol would not necessarily allow for more power or quicker times. However, with sensitive-to-knock turbo cars like ours, it means more boost can be safely acheived.
The octane rating of E85 is listed at 100-105, so it will help in that respect. However, while you would probably be able to lean out mixtures a bit since you don't have to "dump" fuel to suppress detonation, alcohol-based fuels require richer a/f mixtures to achieve the best power, so that may cancel that out.
07-16-06, 12:13 AM
#27
Originally Posted by airborne
Far less MPG.
For our purposes, we should comparing the mileage of E85 to Premium/91/93 octane. I think it's understood that we need to use premium in our cars. Premium gasoline has less energy content then regular/87, meaning one would get less mpg with premium vs regular. On my Civic, i would consistently average 27mpg on premium/91/93, whereas I would get 30mpg consistently on regular/87; so about 10% difference in mpg.
Of course, gasoline will still get more 'mpg' then E85, but the graph above shows the extreme; comparing E85 mpg and premium gas mpg will likely result in a slightly smaller gap.
My biggest issue with the C/D article is that offers no alternatives; we cannot maintain the status quo, and I don't see hydrogen fuel cells in our near future. The author also completely ignores the fact that ethanol fueled cars are a way of life in Brazil. IIRC, 70% of new cars there are flexfuel, and ethanol is available at almost every station. If they can do it, I can't see why the 'most powerful' country in the world can't.
Flex fuel cars makes the most sense in the short term; it only adds roughly $200 to the cost of a new car, and there are no significantly new technology to have to deal with - the combustion engine is still a combustion engine, that works in essentially the same way. Eventually, the combustion engine (as we know it) will probably go away, but only after they figure out how to make fuel cells (or whatever comes along) an economic reality. Until then, we need to figure out alternatives instead of sitting on our thumbs, hoping things will get better.
07-16-06, 03:24 AM
#28
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Think about how far Gasoline has come since it was first refined and how much more efficient and better it is now...
Plus i'm kinda psyced since they're building a new E85 Refinery here in my home town. Possibly 2.
Plus i'm kinda psyced since they're building a new E85 Refinery here in my home town. Possibly 2.
07-16-06, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dclin
Flex fuel cars makes the most sense in the short term; it only adds roughly $200 to the cost of a new car, and there are no significantly new technology to have to deal with - the combustion engine is still a combustion engine, that works in essentially the same way. Eventually, the combustion engine (as we know it) will probably go away, but only after they figure out how to make fuel cells (or whatever comes along) an economic reality. Until then, we need to figure out alternatives instead of sitting on our thumbs, hoping things will get better.
Any superior technology that doesn't benefit the oil companies, auto manufacturers and politicians, will not happen. That is, without a consumer revolt.
Example: E85
Oil companies win by selling it for more and less efficiency gaurantees that they sell more gas.
Auto manufacturers like it because they get an exemption on the CAFE standards on their high profit vehicles.
Politicians like it because it helps the corn and farm lobby and gives people the impression that they're weening us off of imported oil.
The losers are we the consumers.
07-16-06, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by KaoticFdR1
Think about how far Gasoline has come since it was first refined and how much more efficient and better it is now...
Plus i'm kinda psyced since they're building a new E85 Refinery here in my home town. Possibly 2.
Plus i'm kinda psyced since they're building a new E85 Refinery here in my home town. Possibly 2.
07-17-06, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kento
You're right, I forgot about that. The octane rating of E85 is listed at 100-105, so it will help in that respect. However, while you would probably be able to lean out mixtures a bit since you don't have to "dump" fuel to suppress detonation, alcohol-based fuels require richer a/f mixtures to achieve the best power, so that may cancel that out.
The octane rating of E85 is listed at 100-105, so it will help in that respect. However, while you would probably be able to lean out mixtures a bit since you don't have to "dump" fuel to suppress detonation, alcohol-based fuels require richer a/f mixtures to achieve the best power, so that may cancel that out.So far it seems as though I'll save $1/gal on the ethanol over 91, but I'll be burning it faster so it'll probably be a wash as far as fuel economy goes. The power, safety and cooler combustion temps make it an amazing "free" mod.
07-18-06, 12:07 PM
#32
I'm really curious about the emissions. Any way to do a voluntary test to see what effect a high ethenol concentration has on it in our engines? I know that here in IL you can do a voluntary test at any time for 20 bucks.
07-18-06, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dclin
My biggest issue with the C/D article is that offers no alternatives; we cannot maintain the status quo, and I don't see hydrogen fuel cells in our near future. The author also completely ignores the fact that ethanol fueled cars are a way of life in Brazil. IIRC, 70% of new cars there are flexfuel, and ethanol is available at almost every station. If they can do it, I can't see why the 'most powerful' country in the world can't
talmadge in 2020
07-19-06, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Addict
I'm really curious about the emissions. Any way to do a voluntary test to see what effect a high ethenol concentration has on it in our engines? I know that here in IL you can do a voluntary test at any time for 20 bucks.
I'll try and find another one.
12-20-10, 05:32 PM
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This is a terribly-old thread, but I had to mention that ethanol is rediculously easy to make. I'm currently building a distiller like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go3USwVIqfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIRY77faclQ
You get about 6-8 gallons out of it per hour. All you need is anything with sugar in it. Costs about 1.5 / 2 bucks per gallon if you have access to proper stock. I'm personally growing sugar cane on a patch of land. Sugar cane has a FAR higher yeild of sugar than that of corn. I never understood why they went with corn....
Reduce your foreign oil consumption on your own! Plus, when the final bubble pops in America, you think you'll even be able to buy gasoline anymore?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go3USwVIqfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIRY77faclQ
You get about 6-8 gallons out of it per hour. All you need is anything with sugar in it. Costs about 1.5 / 2 bucks per gallon if you have access to proper stock. I'm personally growing sugar cane on a patch of land. Sugar cane has a FAR higher yeild of sugar than that of corn. I never understood why they went with corn....
Reduce your foreign oil consumption on your own! Plus, when the final bubble pops in America, you think you'll even be able to buy gasoline anymore?
12-20-10, 05:42 PM
#39
except for the fact that you need a license to distill it and it can be VERY difficult to get in some cities and states.
of course you could ignore the laws and do it anyways, creating a potential bomb in your back yard. there have been many people popped already who were making their own methanol(same way of producing both but methanol is made from wood where ethanol is made from sugar) for biodiesel mixing. storing it also requires another license.
of course you could ignore the laws and do it anyways, creating a potential bomb in your back yard. there have been many people popped already who were making their own methanol(same way of producing both but methanol is made from wood where ethanol is made from sugar) for biodiesel mixing. storing it also requires another license.
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