Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

So, I finally got around to getting my FoamSeal done to my car. The weather got up to around 70 degrees so I decided to go for it.

First off I would suggest doing this with a friend. When you pop the cork on the cans things can get a little hectic if everything doesn't go just perfect. I did it by myself but I didn't feel like waiting a week for my buddy to get back to help me.

Here is a list of stuff I would get:

1. 7 units of FoamSeal. I bought 5 but I need 2 more to complete the project.

The place that google brings up and the Sport Compact Car references no longer sell this product. I had a bit of a time but I found it here:

Jessica Anderson
Guardian Building Products
2401 SW 10th Street
Oklahoma City, OK 73108
P) 405-236-0617
F) 405-236-0627
www.guardianbp.com

2. I roll of good quality packing tape ie. 3M or something similiar. Not cheap stuff.

3. Multiple sets of rubber gloves. I probably went through 6 or 7.

4. Some towels you don't mind ruining. I had two larger towels and that was
plenty.

5. Acetone

6. 1 to 2 rolls of 1.5" or 2""tape. I used green paint shop tape. You could
probably just use regular masking or the blue tape for house painting. I like
the green though.

7. If you can find rubber plugs that I got from a company that does industrial
powdercoating. See pictures.

8. Misc. other tools. razor, screwdriver, drill bit...you will see later what the drill bit
is for.

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

I decided to start with the cross member that goes behind the seats and below the bins in back. I thought this would be a good place because if I screwed up it would all be cover by carpet anyway.

I already have the interior out because I am getting a roll bar built and am also going to be doing LizardSkin sound deadening and heat shielding spray on product. I will do a write up on that after the car gets the bar installed. It is pretty much the same as the stuff David Hayes used in his 3rd gen. They just have a different product that is a ceramic heat protection product.

I started taping up all of the holes in the cross brace, except for one in the center of the transmission tunnel. I used one for the input point on the product. One thing that I noticed is that the more pressure you can build up inside the cavities the more rigid it will get when it sets up. I also found out just how much pressure was in there when I removed the nozzle from the hole it shot a wad on the ceiling of the car. I am really glad that I had my headliner out. I just waited a couple of minutes and the stuff came right off. So, I taped it up and plugged holes with the rubber plugs.

Be aware of this. When I first opened the cans there was momentary havoc. The cans are in a cradle that you turn a **** and it seats the cans so that the product can go out the tubes and be mixed together at the nozzle. Well two out of five can did not seat properly at first an started shooting foam out the bottom of the cans. I freaked for moment the just turned the **** extra hard and it quite spraying foam out the side. Just be aware if this happen just give the **** an extra hard turn.

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

You can see in this picture that the product did not fill all of the way over into the passenger side. When you put it in it fully expands in about 20-30 seconds then it starts hardening. I used one can to get most of this cross brace filled. I ended up putting a little more in on the passenger side when I started filling the passenger running board. There is a lot of just intuition when using the product. You go by the sound of the feel of the pressure on the packing tape.

dean23

where all are you doing this? and whats the overall benefit?

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

Next was on to the passenger side running board. I started by taping off all of the holes and all of the plastic screw things for the scuff plates. I tape them off and then put the screws in. You can use your original screws because they won't get messed up.

Then I took the green tape and and taped up everywhere else. I sort of over did it at first because I really wasn't sure what was going to happen. This way of taping keep every bit of foamseal off of my car. I also could easily just push the nozzle through the tape if I needed to fill in a place that the stuff didn't seem to fill into.

You just have to listen to where it is going and then after it quites expanding remove some plugs or how ever you can just look and see if it filled in everywhere. You can see in the fourth picture below that it didn't fill end some.

I was suprised when I started filling in the running boards that is sound like it was filling in back into the rear quarter panel in front of the tire. I ended up filling from the hole where the door indicator switch is. You just remove that and pull the wire out on the inside. Then I taped over that and filled in from one of the holes in top front part of the running board. I later added a little more to the inside rear using on of the plugged holes.

OH, I forgot to mention. There is a hole underneath the car that I suddenly found FoamSeal pouring out. It is about 4/5ths of the way towards the back of the running board and about 6 or 7 inches up under the car. I guess it is about a half inch hole. You need to plug it or product will just start flowing out. It is on both sides of the car.

By the way, you really need to triple tape in different directions if you are having to tape over larger open areas. You can see where my seatbelt return mechanism was. I taped over three different times and it still exerted a lot of pressure...it did hold though.

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

It's my understanding that it's to stiffen the chassis without gaining much weight. I imagine it kills some noise, too.

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

So I went to the other side and as you can see in the driver side kick panel area it started filling in there. I don't think anything is being effected by this. If it is you can just take a razor or something and dig it out.

I am going to just post the rest of the pictures and let them tell the rest of the story.

Over all it went very well and I really enjoyed using the product. I can be a little intimidating at first but then you will see the properties of the product and it becomes much easier.

I am sorry I am not going to be able to give results and over effects. By the time I get to drive this car again it will have so much more done to it I will never know exactly what the difference is.

Oh I also forgot to mention that on the drivers side running board underneath there are 3 or 4 large holes that need plugging that are not on the passenger side. That is where the rubber plugs where very effective.

You see in picture three and four below when it gets messy. It is no problem if you tape correctly. If someone had been there to help it would have never got this messy. It is just hard to hold the cans up in the air with one hand and handle anything that might arise with just one other hand. But these pictures show as bad as it got and it was no problem to clean up. Just don't be a slacker on the tape job....

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

More picts

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

Last picts.

I will say that I might look into doing the frame rails underneath in the future. I really like using this stuff. I am like what else can I foamseal now. I am thinking about filling in more of the front part of the rear quarter panels. That might just be overkill as I will have a chrome moly roll bar in soon.

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

My understanding as well.

introVert

Hey Chris- good to see you working on the seven- the blower is doing well in it's new home-

What kind of motor is going in there when you get the chassis ready?

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

20B N/A ITBs semi p-port is the plan so far. I am working with Defined Autoworks. I am waiting for Logan to get his dialed in then go from there. I am hoping for 350-380rwhp. There is a whole lot of work to be done before I get it up to those guys.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

nice.. any concerns about absorbing water?

Christopher W.

iTrader: (2)

I don't think so at all. I have read on here other people talking about that point. They seem to know more about the actual properties of this product or maybe similar product but there seems to be no concern. I actually think RETed was speaking on that very question.

YaNi

iTrader: (2)

According to the SAE paper 1999-01-1785, the stiffer the body, the higher the natural frequency. In the paper Daimler Chrysler concluded that:

"The most sensitive areas of the body were found to be the A-pillar, the D-pillar and their joints. With structural foam injected into this sensitive areas, the vehicle body was significantly stiffened, as shown by the increase in modal frequencies. The 1st torsional mode was most effected with an increase of 29.1% in modal frequency."

Chrysler recommended 8lb/cubic foot foam density.

From US Composites:
"Is this foam water resistant?

Yes, but with the following caveat. The foams that we sell are considered closed-cell, which means that each cell that makes up the foam structure is completely closed off from surrounding cells which prevents it from acting like a sponge. It is completely safe for this foam to be in contact with water for hours/days/weeks and even months with no adverse effects. However, it should never be submerged in contact with water permanently. Over a period of years the water contact can begin to soften the foam and cause it to lose its closed-cell status. This foam is designed primarily to be used as an insurance policy in case of damage/holes that could cause a vessel to lose buoyancy. Pinhole sized openings would essentially have no effect on the foam since the amount of exposure is so minimal but you should always make repairs as soon as possible to keep the foam effectiveness as good as possible. This will be the case will all after market closed-cell polyurethane foams and even manufacturer installed foams."

dean23

wow. im really lost here now. modal frequency? anyone care to explain?

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

basically, everything has a frequency. dont remember the advanced stuff, but alot of whats called "sypathetic vibrations" can cause stress fractures in anything. its a huge problem in the car and home audio world when dealing with certain types of materials and sound waves. lowering the frequency can help if you take alot of the sypethetic vibrations out. or change the resonance frequency, you can theoretically change how the metal or material reacts. ie things being more stable or resistant to vibrating apart. but it makes sense in this case. adding closed cell foam can take alot of the sypathetic vibrations out and filling in small crevices.

THIS IS ALL TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE. sound engineers, have fun.

peace

ZeroDrift

iTrader: (1)

I've done this a while ago and it really helps out. I plan to do the frame rails in the near future as well as the 4 pillars. My girlfriend also did this to her miata, and that was definatly worth it as the car feels so much more solid and quite now.

For the cost, and weight, its well worth doing.

YaNi

iTrader: (2)

Natural Frequency = Fn = SQRT(K/m)
K = stiffness coefficient of body
m = mass of body
If the stiffness increases, then the natural frequency gets higher.

Modal frequency testing (aka shaker modal testing) is a form of vibration testing of an object to find its natural frequency. Since Fn and K are directly proportional, a increase in Fn will mean an increase in K. Finding the stiffness coefficients of the chassis would be hugely complex without computer simulation, measuring an increase in Fn is much easier.