Monsterbox's 20b FD3S Conversion
10-18-14, 09:12 PM
#102
Update
The car is pretty much finished. Its lacking a connection at the turbo charge pipe. Other than that, intercooler setup, manifold, wastegate, dumptube, turbo, etc all is complete.
Today I went to attempt starting the car and found no spark. It appears that although the used Microtech I purchased came with LS1 coils, it has not been programmed for these coils from the factory. Looks as if I'll need to send the ECU back to Australia and have it reflashed.
I ran the ecu in test mode which fires spark and injectors. Injectors clicked, plugs did nothing.
So close, hopefully it won't be too long.
Today I went to attempt starting the car and found no spark. It appears that although the used Microtech I purchased came with LS1 coils, it has not been programmed for these coils from the factory. Looks as if I'll need to send the ECU back to Australia and have it reflashed.
I ran the ecu in test mode which fires spark and injectors. Injectors clicked, plugs did nothing.So close, hopefully it won't be too long.
10-18-14, 10:21 PM
#103
talking head
it does not need to be programmed for LS1 coils
it needs you to select negative spark trigger edge in screen 31
the only reason it needs to go back is if it was setup for wastespark leading
and you now require full sequential operation
( or vichy versa )
this is because different numbers of ignition channels are required to what it was sent out with
igniters are built as either NPN or PNP . and the spark trigger edge selection is opposite for each of them
ford. honda and mazda tended to use the opposite to everyone else , and it is clearly the same with the microtech IGBT x box
with GM LS1 coils you only need to try the other spark trigger edge , and that is in screen 31 selections
LS2 on other hand uses positive edge
it needs you to select negative spark trigger edge in screen 31
the only reason it needs to go back is if it was setup for wastespark leading
and you now require full sequential operation
( or vichy versa )
this is because different numbers of ignition channels are required to what it was sent out with
igniters are built as either NPN or PNP . and the spark trigger edge selection is opposite for each of them
ford. honda and mazda tended to use the opposite to everyone else , and it is clearly the same with the microtech IGBT x box
with GM LS1 coils you only need to try the other spark trigger edge , and that is in screen 31 selections
LS2 on other hand uses positive edge
10-19-14, 02:43 AM
#104
it does not need to be programmed for LS1 coils
it needs you to select negative spark trigger edge in screen 31
the only reason it needs to go back is if it was setup for wastespark leading
and you now require full sequential operation
( or vichy versa )
this is because different numbers of ignition channels are required to what it was sent out with
igniters are built as either NPN or PNP . and the spark trigger edge selection is opposite for each of them
ford. honda and mazda tended to use the opposite to everyone else , and it is clearly the same with the microtech IGBT x box
with GM LS1 coils you only need to try the other spark trigger edge , and that is in screen 31 selections
LS2 on other hand uses positive edge
it needs you to select negative spark trigger edge in screen 31
the only reason it needs to go back is if it was setup for wastespark leading
and you now require full sequential operation
( or vichy versa )
this is because different numbers of ignition channels are required to what it was sent out with
igniters are built as either NPN or PNP . and the spark trigger edge selection is opposite for each of them
ford. honda and mazda tended to use the opposite to everyone else , and it is clearly the same with the microtech IGBT x box
with GM LS1 coils you only need to try the other spark trigger edge , and that is in screen 31 selections
LS2 on other hand uses positive edge
The coils are actually D581 GM Truck Coils, which is actually an LS2. I did not realize this was LS2 and there was a difference in triggering from the LS1 coil. So now, I would need positive edge. Screen 31 Spark Output = IGBT it should work?
10-19-14, 06:08 PM
#106
Well the coil is labeled 12558693. Some say its LS1 others say its a D581 Ls2 coil. I have no idea exactly. I tried it rewired as LS2 and the coil did not fire. Instead, it became extremely hot and is likely burned. I tried - signal and ignbt output. Then I tried - and - for the LS1 configured coils and still no spark. This is all tested in test mode 0 cylinder.
10-19-14, 08:15 PM
#108
talking head
never touch that signal polarity,,leave it negative
.. you should only be playing the spark edge trigger polarity
these coils should be ls2
and when it got hot,, you had the right wiring .. as it was charging
however it was not getting the correct signal edge to fire and stayed in charge too long
some ls2 coils will have auto discharged to save themselves from destruction ( 585 ) , others dont
but if it didnt split or leak then it should be fine
it should be a 0.5 to 5 V TTL output from ecu to trigger them
0 to 0.3 V instead sounds like a CMOS level of logic and will have kept a coil expecting a PNP TTL signal in charge
sounds much like the LT micro allows you choices of + and - trigger at a TTL level
and the LTS allows only a - trigger at a TTL level .. or a + CMOS logic to run the IGBT xbox drivers
if that is the case,, then a + trigger coil is no good to you
.. you should only be playing the spark edge trigger polarity
these coils should be ls2
and when it got hot,, you had the right wiring .. as it was charging
however it was not getting the correct signal edge to fire and stayed in charge too long
some ls2 coils will have auto discharged to save themselves from destruction ( 585 ) , others dont
but if it didnt split or leak then it should be fine
it should be a 0.5 to 5 V TTL output from ecu to trigger them
0 to 0.3 V instead sounds like a CMOS level of logic and will have kept a coil expecting a PNP TTL signal in charge
sounds much like the LT micro allows you choices of + and - trigger at a TTL level
and the LTS allows only a - trigger at a TTL level .. or a + CMOS logic to run the IGBT xbox drivers
if that is the case,, then a + trigger coil is no good to you
10-19-14, 09:43 PM
#110
talking head
see post in other thread ,, it seems ( from microtech, see linked post ) that IGBT selection SHOULD be + 12v signal
i think maybe when you had it wired as ls1 it earthed the + wire in the ecu and hurt it
i think maybe when you had it wired as ls1 it earthed the + wire in the ecu and hurt it
10-19-14, 09:50 PM
#111
Going back over the pin outs, I had originally wired it as LS2 and then swapped to LS1 after nothing worked. This caused the super hot leading coil.
I once read that the output trigger signal cannot be measured with a multi-meter and only a scope as its charged for such a brief moment that its not accurate. However it still does not function so I'm just going to assume its damaged at this point unless I hear back from Microtech.
I once read that the output trigger signal cannot be measured with a multi-meter and only a scope as its charged for such a brief moment that its not accurate. However it still does not function so I'm just going to assume its damaged at this point unless I hear back from Microtech.
10-20-14, 07:02 AM
#114
Exhaust Manifold Leak
could it be it needs a pull up resistor? I dont know your ECU but the megasquirt I used on our miata 13B I used a pull up resistor IIRC, try something like 1KOhm and hook it to +5v. then be careful to see if the ecu indeed pulls the output downall the time exept during the dwell/charging. otherwise you'll overheat the coil quickly.
if the microcontroller stage of the ecu sends only out a positive TTL signal when the coil needs to charge then you need this signal directly and feed to to the coil input. as normally the microcontroller output logic 1 activates the FET and the FET then switches the negative side of the coil to ground and charges it. as in putting the ign output to ground when the coil need to be charged.
Because you have coils with built in igbt/igniter you actually need the inverse signal.
if the microcontroller stage of the ecu sends only out a positive TTL signal when the coil needs to charge then you need this signal directly and feed to to the coil input. as normally the microcontroller output logic 1 activates the FET and the FET then switches the negative side of the coil to ground and charges it. as in putting the ign output to ground when the coil need to be charged.
Because you have coils with built in igbt/igniter you actually need the inverse signal.
10-20-14, 09:01 AM
#115
could it be it needs a pull up resistor? I dont know your ECU but the megasquirt I used on our miata 13B I used a pull up resistor IIRC, try something like 1KOhm and hook it to +5v. then be careful to see if the ecu indeed pulls the output downall the time exept during the dwell/charging. otherwise you'll overheat the coil quickly.
if the microcontroller stage of the ecu sends only out a positive TTL signal when the coil needs to charge then you need this signal directly and feed to to the coil input. as normally the microcontroller output logic 1 activates the FET and the FET then switches the negative side of the coil to ground and charges it. as in putting the ign output to ground when the coil need to be charged.
Because you have coils with built in igbt/igniter you actually need the inverse signal.
if the microcontroller stage of the ecu sends only out a positive TTL signal when the coil needs to charge then you need this signal directly and feed to to the coil input. as normally the microcontroller output logic 1 activates the FET and the FET then switches the negative side of the coil to ground and charges it. as in putting the ign output to ground when the coil need to be charged.
Because you have coils with built in igbt/igniter you actually need the inverse signal.
I can't figure out what the ECU is doing. I've tried a mulit-meter on the ignition outputs and see basically nothing. 0.03v. Despite changing the signal from Negative to IGBT (likely means positive), nothing changes on the muli-meter. Apparently the LT12s should be putting out 12v from the driver.
From what I gather, the LS2 coil receives an inverse signal differing from the LS1 coil. LS1 coil is triggered by - signal. I will set the ECU to - trigger and try an LS1 AC Delco D580 coil tonight and see what happens. I'm betting this POS microtech ECU is fried.
When I reversed the wiring to one of the LS2 coils currently connected, the coil became extremely hot very quickly. I donno if it was the 12v constant going miswired to the ground causing the heat, or excessive charging from proper installation and then no signal from the ECU to discharge. This is annoying.
10-20-14, 09:12 AM
#116
Exhaust Manifold Leak
Did you try with a pull up resistor? or just use a LED or 5w bulb and connect the + side to 5v or 12v and the neg side with the correct resistor to the ign output and see what happens.
if the ecu has builtin igniter/igbt then it needs a pull up resistor to work with ls2 coils.
if the ecu has builtin igniter/igbt then it needs a pull up resistor to work with ls2 coils.
10-20-14, 10:15 AM
#117
ECU does not have builtin igniter. As far as I know, only the LTX/MTX models had internal igniters. This is an LTs. Its suppose to deliver +12 output signals yet I do not see it on mulit-meter. Maybe LED light will show.
I will try LS1 coil tonight.
I haven't tried the pullup resistor. I will try the LED test light tonight, wiring 12v to one side, and ignition output to the other with negative triggering enabled.
I will try LS1 coil tonight.
I haven't tried the pullup resistor. I will try the LED test light tonight, wiring 12v to one side, and ignition output to the other with negative triggering enabled.
10-20-14, 05:52 PM
#119
Pistons are for pussy's
I was shocked you didnt go with Adaptronic in the first place bro, microwreck is old and obsolote and the support sucks, its ok for drag cars but yours is a street car.
10-20-14, 06:59 PM
#120
I wouldn't over look the Haltech Sport 2000 or the new Elite that's being released as we speak. I run an old E11v2 and hope to upgrade to the ELITE next. year. There is a HUGE support base here on the forum with wiring diagrams and such for the 20b. C-Lugwig and Claudio are a huge help with info. I set my own 20b up with their diagrams.
10-21-14, 05:10 PM
#125
I wouldn't over look the Haltech Sport 2000 or the new Elite that's being released as we speak. I run an old E11v2 and hope to upgrade to the ELITE next. year. There is a HUGE support base here on the forum with wiring diagrams and such for the 20b. C-Lugwig and Claudio are a huge help with info. I set my own 20b up with their diagrams.
Although this may be the only 20b turbo adaptronic, the ecu has demonstrated tremendous capabilities and the customer service seems top notch so far.
One simply cannot go wrong with either.