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Tunning question / opinion
My car which i am tunning is a t04s cosmo re with 550's and 1680's
if i nail the throtal around 3k in 3'rd or 4th the car goes wicked lean even though it shouldnt, load's around 43, timmings about 40deg advanced with 8* split, fuel is around 5.8ms and the wb will say low 15afr's? however at a higher rpm if i do the same and hold around load 43 afr's will be fine, low 14's is this problem a ignitiion problem where as im not getting a complete burn? sending raw fuel down the exhaust, is my stock fpr having an issue geting the fuel pressure up in time? other idea's? this has happend to me countless times, i cannot figure it out, my next experemnt was going to be trying to pull some fuel, however if that wasnt the problem i didnt want to risk it when it happens, the car feels like it starts to fall on its face, then all of a sudden it clears up at which point the afr's are good also im on stock fc coils, fd igniter running the trailing coil with ngk 9's all around -Jacob EDIT my staged injection is based soly off load, not ramped at all via rpm before you ask, and i belive has already started, it begins around load 30 |
40deg advanced seems to be alot. you could actually be firing your leading into the flank of a rotor rather then the recession. then it would run on only the trailing.
check out this thread. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hlight=advance read post #5 and #9. please post your findings when you solve your problem. |
its a problem with your transient enrichment maps.
give it more fuel at those rpms. |
more % fuel in the enrichment map (already set to 625) or more fuel in the fuel map
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Originally Posted by CrackHeadMel
(Post 7305973)
more % fuel in the enrichment map (already set to 625) or more fuel in the fuel map
Now what happens the primary injector fire every second event and the secondaries fire every event. Now when you engine picks up RPM you only have about 6.5 ms between pulses now injector are fully open at about 80% duty cycle it takes 20% to close. This means at about 8000 rpm your maximum secondary injector pulsewidth is 5.2 ms because the injectors are double firing compaired to the primary injectors.. What the Wolf Does is if the secondary injector is already fired and it gets another signal to fire is it skips that pulse instead!!!! Now what does the accellerator pump do to the duty? It pushes it past this. This spike if it goes into the overlap say 4000 rpm and you smash the gas and the pulse width goes to 10.4 ms with secondary Injector skip set to 0 it misses pulses. The solution is simple set secondary injector skip to 1 this fires the secondary injectors either one rotor 1 or rotor 2 only not both.. To do this you need to retune all your point where there is any secondary staging. Been there done that !!:) Regards Michael Smith |
Originally Posted by Michael Smith
(Post 7306772)
The other problem is that it could be so rich that it doesn't burn at all and it missfires and causing a lean indication but it is actually rich OR you could have your secondary injector skip set to 0 this causes the injectors to fire with every sync event ie every rotor
Now what happens the primary injector fire every second event and the secondaries fire every event. Now when you engine picks up RPM you only have about 6.5 ms between pulses now injector are fully open at about 80% duty cycle it takes 20% to close. This means at about 8000 rpm your maximum secondary injector pulsewidth is 5.2 ms because the injectors are double firing compaired to the primary injectors.. What the Wolf Does is if the secondary injector is already fired and it gets another signal to fire is it skips that pulse instead!!!! Now what does the accellerator pump do to the duty? It pushes it past this. This spike if it goes into the overlap say 4000 rpm and you smash the gas and the pulse width goes to 10.4 ms with secondary Injector skip set to 0 it misses pulses. The solution is simple set secondary injector skip to 1 this fires the secondary injectors either one rotor 1 or rotor 2 only not both.. To do this you need to retune all your point where there is any secondary staging. Been there done that !!:) Regards Michael Smith granted i dont think this is his problem, i think he just needs to tune his transient enrichment maps. |
injc 1 pulse offset 0
injec 2 pulse offset 1 injec 3 pulse offset 1 injc 4 pulse offset 1 injector staged pulse offset 0 injc 1 pulse skip 1 injec 2 pulse skip 1 injec 3 pulse skip 1 injec 4 pulse skip 1 staged pulse skip 1 correct? |
Originally Posted by CrackHeadMel
(Post 7308353)
injc 1 pulse offset 0
injec 2 pulse offset 1 injec 3 pulse offset 1 injc 4 pulse offset 1 injector staged pulse offset 0 injc 1 pulse skip 1 injec 2 pulse skip 1 injec 3 pulse skip 1 injec 4 pulse skip 1 staged pulse skip 1 correct? injec 2 pulse offset 0 :fires on 2 injec 3 pulse offset 1 :not used when staging.. set to 0 if used on 4 cyclinder without staging injc 4 pulse offset 1 :not used when staging.. set to 0 if used on 4 cyclinder without staging injector staged pulse offset 0 : if set 1 first on rotor2 injc 1 pulse skip 1 : fires one event skips the next firing order 1,2 this fires on rotor1 injec 2 pulse skip 1 :fires one event skips the next this fires on rotor2 injec 3 pulse skip 1 :fires one event skips the next :not used in staging injec 4 pulse skip 1 :fires one event skips the next :not used in staging staged pulse skip 1 :causes firing on one event which is rotor2 <problem child here Skip set to 0 causes the stagged injectors to fire rotor1 and 2 These setting are from my car that I drive every day. Close... Well this works nicely on my car and yes you need to add more fuel because you are only firing half as often. I may be wrong with this injc 1 pulse offset 0 :fires on 1 injec 2 pulse offset 0 :fires on 2 but my car runs nicely. nyt?? do you have any feedback is my offset wrong???:) Cheers Michael Smith |
I did infact add some fuel to the map, leveling the map across the board, it did help however i think nyt is right with transient map issues
anyone have a link to an online resource to setting up a transient enrichment map? free reving my car it seems ok, afr's go to where they should be |
take a look at my transient maps, basically you just need to watch where the load / rpm goes. add more fuel to the areas you need. it takes a bit of playing with but i have mine so smooth at this point its crazy =]
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Oh I forgot to mention with your secondary skip set to 0 (firing for each event or double firing)your maximum staging percentage is 50 to make sure the Wolf doesn't skip a pulse and run lean because the injector pulses overlap. Thats why some of the maps that come from Wolf only have 50% Maximum Staging.
Cheers Michael Smith |
Originally Posted by Michael Smith
(Post 7308783)
injc 1 pulse offset 0 :fires on 1
injec 2 pulse offset 0 :fires on 2 injec 3 pulse offset 1 :not used when staging.. set to 0 if used on 4 cyclinder without staging injc 4 pulse offset 1 :not used when staging.. set to 0 if used on 4 cyclinder without staging injector staged pulse offset 0 : if set 1 first on rotor2 injc 1 pulse skip 1 : fires one event skips the next firing order 1,2 this fires on rotor1 injec 2 pulse skip 1 :fires one event skips the next this fires on rotor2 injec 3 pulse skip 1 :fires one event skips the next :not used in staging injec 4 pulse skip 1 :fires one event skips the next :not used in staging staged pulse skip 1 :causes firing on one event which is rotor2 <problem child here Skip set to 0 causes the stagged injectors to fire rotor1 and 2 These setting are from my car that I drive every day. Close... Well this works nicely on my car and yes you need to add more fuel because you are only firing half as often. I may be wrong with this injc 1 pulse offset 0 :fires on 1 injec 2 pulse offset 0 :fires on 2 but my car runs nicely. nyt?? do you have any feedback is my offset wrong???:) Cheers Michael Smith |
Originally Posted by Michael Smith
(Post 7310338)
Oh I forgot to mention with your secondary skip set to 0 (firing for each event or double firing)your maximum staging percentage is 50 to make sure the Wolf doesn't skip a pulse and run lean because the injector pulses overlap. Thats why some of the maps that come from Wolf only have 50% Maximum Staging.
Cheers Michael Smith its silly to do this, the secondaries are high enough up that yuo dont need the syncing, but you lose injection time with the closing / reopening of the injectors that way. You'll end up pushing your primaries to the max sooner this way as well. |
so i should leave my staged injector skip set to 1?
and ill look at your (nyt) traisent maps today |
Originally Posted by nyt
(Post 7310965)
its silly to do this, the secondaries are high enough up that yuo dont need the syncing, but you lose injection time with the closing / reopening of the injectors that way. You'll end up pushing your primaries to the max sooner this way as well.
Cheers Michael Smith |
Originally Posted by nyt
(Post 7310962)
your inj 2 offset should be 1, its in regards to pickup events.
Michael Smith :Wconfused |
AE should be double checked as well as your decay rate(if u have the function). i believe there are a few different strageties u can use. map rate of change fueling and tps rate of change are just a few. VE between lload cells can change quite a bit down low so more enrichment might be needed. AE can be lessened up in the upper laod cells and still hit the transient afrs your looking for because VE will be more "predictable" as the engine climbs thru the speed and load points.
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modded cas doesnt matter. It knows when the ghost pulses are when when each "event" is, and by event its all relative to ignition events (firing r1 and r2)
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Originally Posted by CrackHeadMel
(Post 7304801)
My car which i am tunning is a t04s cosmo re with 550's and 1680's
if i nail the throtal around 3k in 3'rd or 4th the car goes wicked lean even though it shouldnt, load's around 43, timmings about 40deg advanced with 8* split, fuel is around 5.8ms and the wb will say low 15afr's? however at a higher rpm if i do the same and hold around load 43 afr's will be fine, low 14's is this problem a ignitiion problem where as im not getting a complete burn? sending raw fuel down the exhaust, is my stock fpr having an issue geting the fuel pressure up in time? other idea's? this has happend to me countless times, i cannot figure it out, my next experemnt was going to be trying to pull some fuel, however if that wasnt the problem i didnt want to risk it when it happens, the car feels like it starts to fall on its face, then all of a sudden it clears up at which point the afr's are good also im on stock fc coils, fd igniter running the trailing coil with ngk 9's all around -Jacob EDIT my staged injection is based soly off load, not ramped at all via rpm before you ask, and i belive has already started, it begins around load 30 Try with 15° of split and 20° avanced. Check the fuel filter, and the pressure regulator. Check the map sensor |
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