Stage injection
 

Something is wrong, my secondaries are not coming on. Here is a map of my settup. Currently running 550c primaries and 1000 Secondaries all low impedence. Can the wolf run 2 low impedence injectors on the staging wire?


The car runs great for cruising but I can't get any power in boost cause it will go lean, 14.7. I have a wideband.

I just did a test standing still and holding the engine at 2k. While doing that I turned the percent rpm all at 100% and then took the percent load and slowly turn it up at the load the engine was. I know the car should start to run rough because of the extra fuel but this was different. It ran rough like it was going lean, the Wideband actually didn't go to 10 it actually started to go down a little. I have ran my car with the haltech on all four injector and you can tell it was running very rich but this was different.

Any ideas. Could the impedence of the secondaries make a difference? I'm running the disc type of secondaries, they are only like 3 months old and were running perfect before the swap to wolf.

The other thing I'm going to check is the wiring at the injectors clips.

I should check the led lights on the wolf but that thing is buried. I guess that would help alot hmm.

Thanks
Carlos

your percentage rpm is 0 until 4000rpm. you should just make this map 100% across the board.

your percentage load is 0 until 50. this means you wont have any secondaries come on until like 5 lbs of boost, and the transition will be very harsh.

try making your staging map look like this: (you can make the slope a little harsher, my secondaries are 1600's.. yo may be able to start bringing them in at load bar 43 as well.

http://www.countercultured.net/pics/staging.jpg

Hey I did that in purpose, but you just made me realized that your maps are meant for 1600 and I have 1000. I have to bring the maps richer during transition. Silly me. I can now boost till 7psi. Still tuning.

C

Turbo rotor I wrote a tool to make recalculation of duty cycle easier. http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/freqgengui/ if you look at the bottom you will see my recalculator. Download it and it can figure out the new pulse width with the correct parameters ....don't forget the staging it is just a matter of copy and pasting the current pulse width into the calculator and adding the old and new parameters then just recalculate it.

Regards
Michael Smith

Thanks Mike I will look into it.

C

What i did to set up the staging was thus.
-Turn of staging and transients idle etc...
-on the primary only get the car to run smooth across the entire load bands
-get the duty cycle on the primaries even up to 100% while driving, but get it smooth!
-Once you used a base map and set it up, first use over all trim to see what is best for your engine.
-add or subtract the percentage of that trim to your map, so you can tune further with o trim on the map
-once the primaries run the engine perfectly and only then...go tonext step.
-set the staging that NTY so nicely provided.I use those,i only added 5% staging on the 43% load band.
-bring the x axis on the fuel map to an incriment of 500/1000/1500etc
-subtract the percentage of fuel added on the staging. that is, at ez. at 71% load band you are staging at 60.2.
so at 71Load you run 9.52ms. 9.52 (100-60.2)/100 =3.79
9.52-3.79 =5.73
so now you have the initial fuel for staging that isat say 5000rpm 71 load u need 5.73 and 60% staging.

get onto the road with your stochiometer, try her out, add and subtract with overall trim.
-once you are happy with that setting add or subtract the percentage of trim to the map.
-turn back on transients, and play with response.
however you will have only one variable now fuel!! staging will always remain with that 15% incriment.

NYT Micheal and anyone....correct me if i said something wrong. it worked for me, so i am just sharing what worked for me..

got any shortcuts folks?

cheers
George

Hey Guys,

I think I found part of the problem. Took the manifold off and checked the injector clips. One of the pins on the rear secondary injector got pushed back. I"m lucky I didnt' blow the engine. This was creating the crazy back fire when the staging load was above 50%. One rotor was rich, the other lean making the 02 swing back and forth. Will let you know how it goes today.

Carlos

Yes that sounds right. I had a injector cable go faulty and you could see the O2 sensor going up and down if you brought in 100 staging at Idle. How does it go now???

Michael Smith

so what does 100 mean ? that all 4 inj get the same time on? and 0 means that only the primarys use the fuel map? and like 50 mean that the secondarys are on for half the time that the primarys are on and so forth? also what is duty cycle? also what would you reccommend for me if i dont want my secondarys comming on until i start boosting ? I run 850 pri 1600 sec stock turbos (still seq) 13B RE cosmo with FMIC

*****i am talking about the numbers you enter under staged injection load

Hi Carlos,
basically this is how it works say you have 5.00ms pulse duration with 0% staging....you have 5.00ms only on your primaries and 0ms on your secondries.
Now if we move your staging to 50% then you get 5.00ms on your primaries and 5.00ms x 50% = 2.50ms on the secondries
Now if you have 550's all around you have a total of 7.5 ms as if you only used the primary injectors.
Now 100% is 5.00 ms on the secondries. Now with say 1000cc injectirs roughly inject about 2 times the amount of the 550's. So with 50%staging on 1000 cc secondries
would be equal to 100% staging with 550 secondries.

Do you see?


Michael Smith

thanks that clears up a lot, now what is duty cycle? also how much total cc's should i use for like a total of like 15psi? so 850 cc primaries and 1600 cc secondaries at 53.1 makes a total of 1700 cc per rotor at that load (57% i think is like 14?) is that too much or is it better to go less on the sec @ full load so 36 is 0 psi should i go like 36=0 43=17.7 50=35.4 57=53.1 that seems harsh right? do i want to bring in secondaries at 36? or should i divide all those numbers by 2 and have only 36=0 43=8.85 50=17.7 57=26.55 would that be your guys best advice?

:::Im new at this sorry:::
also my name is Jeremy not carlos ... ha ha!

I found it easier to tune by setting a fixed staging map, at 15% incriments across the load band starting at 5% at 43load 15% at fifty and 15% thereafter. then you only have to worry about the map. also, with that staginging i get my injectors to DC only like some 72%.

oh yes and 100% across the rpm. so as such like so you have no staging till boost comes in round 38% ish and its like NA below the load band and no fuel wastage.

with my staging i running lean to stochiometric below boost, and just on the rich side under boost. but i just add fuel to my map, my staging is always fixed. I tried loads of staging incriments, but NTYs 15% seems to work best fo all folks here whoes tried it....

i will try something close to nyt's map but is it going to be safe? or should i add overall enrichment until its safe? and take it slow? thanks

the way your map seems set up i think you might have to take off fuel to run!!

i think Nyt's staging is the only approriate staging to run on wolf. the only difference i might add is that i put in 5% at 43load too just to ease in the stage transition...but then, that depends if the particular engine likes it.

I have run Nyt's staging and its the best i could use!!