FD ignitor / weird problem
 

Finally after 3 months of no trailings I had time to install them with the FD ignitor. I followed nyt instructions and they made sense.

I installed the unit, tripled check the wires, they work but the timing is off.

At first both T1 and T2 where shooting on the same place. Eventually I had T1 shooting somewhere and T2 was shooting were T1 should be. I swapped the Spark plugs wires and it shot were it is supposed to be @ 20 adtc.

I have tripped check the wires and they are correct per the illustration.

I even ran the car with just the trailings on with the spark plug wires in there correct spot and it will not start. You swap them and the car idles and revs. This is only using trailings.

Any ideas???

post your map please. i'd like to take a look at the ignition setup.


you should be using IGN2 from wolf for leading, IGN1 as T1 and IGN3 as T2.

I will upload one in a half hour but is map that came str8 from you that was posted a few months ago. The only thing that changed was the trigger.

i just wanted to make sure the ignition sequencing was all correct.. your unit isnt a plugin unit right?

just make sure you have IGN2 going to the leading, and IGN1 to t1, and ign3 to t2

Here it is.

I have the red wire from wolf going to the first pin on the ignitor.

Yellow wolf going to leading stock coil/ignitor. No problem there.

I think the gray from wolf to the 3rd pin on the ignitor.


I have Pin 2 green/red wire to coil one. Pin 5 green/white to coil 2.


This map doesn't reflect the new offset for fuel injection.

Is not a plug in unit.

so youre saying that T1 and T2 are reversed?

your wiring looks good. just so you know with that map.. thats prolly not gonna fire at -5 at idle, but an average of the values in the area... i generally block out the whole area of the value when im setting timing.

also, the coils are totally disconnected from the stock ignitor correct? you wired these directly to the individual coils right?

theres a possibility your cas isnt set right. IE: your getting getting waste spark when you want the regular spark and it thinks its firing rotor 1 when its really rotor 2. which means the dual pulse or sync event is 180 degrees out of engine rotation (90 degrees of cas rotation on FC)

let me know if this helps any.

I zero out all timing on the tables and set the spit so it hits where I want it to but T2 is shooting where T1 is suppose to.

If I just run the trailings, no leading normally it will not idle or start. If i swap T1 and T2, the engine will fire up and idle and rev just running on trailings.

On the coils, i kept the power wires to the coils coming from the ignitors connected but disconnected the trigger coming from the ignitors. I then connected the the wires coming from the 3gen ignitor to the coils correctly like I said before.


Hmm I will look into the cas because the leading don't care if they are out 180 degrees.

id venture a guess at the cas.


if everything runs fine with the wires swapped, youre just 180 degrees out of phase

Would an incorrect wired cas do this too and run?

C

doubted. just seems out of place.

After a careful investigation here is what I have.
 

I have the CAS wired this way.
Green and Red wire from CAS to Blue/green wire PIN 27 Wolf
White Wire from CAS to Brown/white wire PIN 28 Wolf
White/black from CAS to Grey wire PIN P12 wolf plus unit.


I restabbed the CAS. I got it to run even smoother.

The trailing still shoot 180 off if I run it like the it should on paper.

I'm just going to swap the wires from the ignitor so it makes since when plugging the spark plug wires to the correct coils. The car runs fine like that on the marks.

Here are my other questions.

Under the Trigger sequencing I have:
Trigger Mode Ref+Sync
Trigger sequence Reset count 2
Trigger1 Dual Pulse Window 3 <------I have seen a map with this set @ 2
Trigger ref/sync mode 0 <----- of course
Trigger ref/sync offset 3 <It was 5 but after restabbing this runs good
Trigger ref/sync skip 5 <--- of course
Trigger 2 Sync Polarity Rising Edge <--I have seen a map set at Falling.

When I changed the Trigger 2 sync polarity - the engine seem to miss, no trigger errors but it pop here and there, no purr idle.
Should Rising Edge be the correct setting for Stock CAS for Trigger 2 sync polarity??? I saw another map from someone here set at falling.

Now under the Trigger 1 sensor settup.

Trigger 1 polarity Rising Edge

IS that correct too????


Carlos

I think it is the falling edge...as it is the sharpest and is used in most other automotive applications.(more accurate)

Michael Smith

I understand Michael but...

On the articles from WOlf on how to wire the CAS, depending how you wired it, it depend on the falling edge or rising edge. Is there a best way?

fc cas uses rising edge.

falling edge is the first drop from 0, to -1, rising edge is from -1 to 1 and the steepest, then it drops back from 1 to 0

unless the pickup is wired backwards.. then it could be reversed...

if youre using a hall affect type signal where its a BOX you also wanna use rising edge always


ie:

___\|\ _____
___\|
_______|__|____|__
_______|__|____|__|______

My apologies it is the rising edge DOH!!!! Next time I will get my manual out before I answer. Thanks again nyt.

Michael Smith

Thanks guys,

I confirmed the rising edge. My friend and I hooked up a oscilloscope to the cas. I installed the positive to the white/black wire(cas) and negative to the red wire(cas).

It showed a rising egde trigger.

Actually that shows the pickup being reversed as compaired to what the Wolf Ecu wants to see. This would cause a unstable timing in my opinion because the rising edge is sloped. In this case the falling edge trigger would work better. I would have another look at the Wolf Instal Manual.
Michael Smith

This is how I wired the CAS. I used Option 1

I did a little research on the stock system. The stock system is wired vi option 2 on the wolf. So this means it run on a falling edge trigger.

According to wolf manual, the ecu is best triggered with a rising edge trigger, which is option 1 on the diagram. I'm goign to leave it like that. That car runs fine and not timing issues. The only thing that bothers me is that the trailings are not wired up like the diagram per NYT and mazda, but they run correctly the other way around.

Carlos

correct me if im wrong but isnt the output from the mazda cas like this: (inverted from what you posted)

http://countercultured.net/pics/reluctor.jpg

It all depends how you wire the polarity.

That's correct if you wire it using option 2. Looking @ how it is wired on the mazda schematics, that's what the stock ecu will see also.



I did two tests with the osillascope this past weekend to confirm.

well that uses a rising edge trigger, which goes from when it goes from negative to positive voltage. its the steepest part and easiest to trigger on

I haven't found hard prove yet about this. I've read a few technical manuals on eletronics and they refer to a rising edge when the voltage goes from 0 to positve yet they also say when it goes from a negative to a positive.

I"m going to ask one of the eletronics teacher what is the correct terminology.

technically both are right, however if you have it set to trigger on rising edge here.. well theres only one rising edge.. and its the sharpest edge there so its the one you want.. if you reverse the polarity, it would be falling

Hmm I see what you mean now.

Why would wolf say rising when using option 1. You the get the trigger I first posted, which I got when I hooked up the oscilloscope.

I will have to experiement this weekend with this.