ITB'd Stock Port 6 Port NA Dyno
 

So, I finally got the car tuned! Car put down 169.6 whp. Mods and chart below.

Specs:
-stock s4 6 port na with exhaust diffusers in
-RH 48mm ITB's
-Star Mazda Racing manifold (port matched)
-2x ID1000cc injectors (primary only)
-Adjustable FPR set at 40 psi
-Stock NA fuel pump
-Haltech e6x
-Stock coils
-stock wires
-RB True dual exhaust
-SR Aluminum LW flywheel and t2 trans


--There is more, but I feel that's all that applies to the power ratings


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...c6a2171cfe.jpg



Lines were traced because the print out was bad. I didn't change anything and will provide an electronic file to verify this once I receive it.


I'm thinking my RB exhaust is holding some power back and I want to collect it at the diff into a single exit at some point in the future. Also, the exhaust diffusers aren't helping any. Unfortunately, those are staying in until I have to crack the motor apart. I wish I could grind the damn things with the motor in. Any other options without porting that could net me 180 whp?

What kind of dyno was it?

140ft lbs is impressive

Dyno jet

post an engine bay shot, lets see them itbs

I'll get a good shot tomorrow. Here's the electronic dyno file

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...cdff27b8b5.jpg

Cool. Congrats.

How much did you have into the project?

Into the just the itb set-up? Estimates:

Itbs,horns,extension tubes, tps, and throttle lever-420.00
Manifold-450.00? (I think)
Injectors- 240.00
E6x-400 ish
Tuning-900.00

So.... alot. Lol.

This doesn't include my other mods or all the random connectors, bolts, and wiring supplies I had to buy.

Some of the cost was offset by selling the stock parts.

Yes, I think a properly collected exhaust will get you to 180rwhp.

It will mainly be from keeping your torque from dropping off at 6,250rpm.

You may have to fiddle with your ignition and run the right premix to get there as it looks like you might be getting ignition misfires or apex seal spit back (we could see this more clearly if the smoothing was reduced on the dyno).

Star Mazda intake manifold-

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...e1b0689cda.jpg

Race Hardware ITBs-

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...948b387435.jpg

I figured the exhaust is definitely reducing some of the power. As for the ignition, I'm not sure what the ideal settings are for a stock port NA running premix only at 1oz to 1.5 oz per gallon. For some reason, 2nd gear is really touchy now and hard to shift into smoothly. This never happened before the swap and I think the chart reflects that rough shift. It's not the trans either or clutch either. It's not terrible, but noticeable for sure.

As for the pics you posted, that's exactly what I have lol

As for the ignition, I'm not sure what the ideal settings are for a stock port NA running premix only at 1oz to 1.5 oz per gallon.

As far as ignition I was more thinking you might need better plugs, tighter gap or improved coils/CDI unit for the high rpm.

For some reason, 2nd gear is really touchy now and hard to shift into smoothly.

For any driveability tuning for the rotary always first try adding more fuel. You have too much fuel when it hesitates with a backfire, almost any other rough running, surging or sudden onset of power (snatch) is from a lean condition.

For your condition I would try adding fuel in the "throttle pump" settings of the ECU first in the rpm range where you are tipping back into the throttle in 2nd after releasing the clutch and it is "touchy".

Big throttle body area requires more "throttle pump" setting as intake velocity drops fast as you open the throttle and fuel droplets fall out of suspension and cling to the intake runner walls.

Ah. That makes sense. For my power goals, I was planning on sticking with the OEM coils. At least for now. The plugs may be fouled from the tuning and could be changed. I have 2 full sets laying around. They are standard 9 and 7's.

I get what you mean by the throttle pump settings, however your description to why it happens doesn't apply in my situation as I'm running primary only injection. There are no injectors mounted in the manifold.

The car is also currently tuned in MAP mode due to some issues with the E6X and tps mode.

My tuner offered to take a peek at it again to make some small adjustments. My cold start is also a little off and takes a little bit of cranking, so I may take him up on the offer.

stock fc coils to over 200 all the time, not that 200 is done all the time either.

i would tell you what i suggest to improve if i could see your whole engine bay. i bet your sucking in hot air?

I get what you mean by the throttle pump settings, however your description to why it happens doesn't apply in my situation as I'm running primary only injection. There are no injectors mounted in the manifold.

Yeah, I use primaries only for low load as well and I get fuel all the way up the primary runners on the LIM, there is a strong reversion pulse when the intake port opens on side ports.

lastphaseofthis stock fc coils to over 200 all the time, not that 200 is done all the time either.


Yes, if everything is in good shape with the right plugs, but you can see on his dyno chart why I mention ignition problems or apex seal spitback; 6,250-6,800rpm something isn't right.

I'm definitely sucking in hot air. I'd like to build an airbox. In the meantime, I'm probably going to make a heat shield that bolts to the headers to direct the heat back down to the ground.

That top part your speaking of may be due to the ecu having the rev limiter set at 6800. This has been upped to 7800.

Give me 30 minutes and I'll post at bay shot
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...ee8f6db437.jpg


Edit

Looks great!

i dunno all i see is a fat alternator. is there a motor behind/under it?
lets see that header?

im betting on coldair box, better exhaust, and different plugs.. more timing!

who tuned it? how is their experience with N/a rotaries? im betting on conservative leading timing.
if the engine was seeing high AITs it would have been easy to knock. lots of knock readings make tuners pull timing.

Sorry lol. Here is a better picture of the motor and set up.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...97bf697cc2.jpg


I just took the car out and did some road tuning. Linearized the map and upped the fuel a few increments to the whole map evenly. Seemed to help a little bit. I upped the 1500 rpm and 3000 rpm throttle pumps to around 20 to 25% based off feel. The problem is pretty much gone! Theres also a lot more response at low rpm and less herky jerky. :)

The timing is based off the recommended settings from Rob at Pineapple Racing. The tuner contacted him to verify the appropriate values for this type of set-up.

Thanks. It's not nearly as clean as I want it to be. I've got a full chassis harness tuck but the drivers side still looks gross. Now that the car is running, I can focus on making it look better. As this car is never going back to stock(too much money) I'd like to have a nice bay to show off.

Well, I'm taking the car back to the tuner next week. Took it on a highway cruise and seemed to get really large lean spikes at 3k rpm under constant light load. Should I up the 3k throttle pump increment/decay first?

Something is wrong, I'm not a big fan of the true duals but I don't think it would cause the power to flatten out like that. I would check the fuel system first, during a pull watch your fpr and make sure your pressure is not dropping off, if it is replace the fuel filter and check the fuel pump voltage.

Maybe you can find a tuner on the board that can double check the tune.

Also look into 6 port inserts.

Not sure what you mean by flatten out. You mean the top part of the graph? I'm positive that was from the rev limiter that was set prior to tuning. I forgot to raise it and let them know they could take it past 7k. Fuel pressure was solid when they were tuning. Filter is brand new. Pump is older but the voltage checks out.
I may look into inserts. For now, the car is running and has a decent amount of power over stock. I'm not going to spend a ton of money on tuning this engine as I plan to build a large street port motor.

at 6300rpm you see the power and torque take a dive then power slowly creeps back up at 7K, with that intake setup you should see smooth power increase beyond 7.5K (exhaust sleeve limiting), you do have a a/f graph?

personally, i would throw 100-200 bucks at random things that could help that don't cost alot, clean all the grounds, and the battery terminals, new fuel filter, plugs and wires, maybe a 3 sets of plugs of different types.. you're looking to make 20 more tq across the band, plus fix the power dip at the top and you'll have 160fts and possible 210 hp.
also you should be revving higher.. 7k even for stock ports and sleeves seems lil low. maybe you're exhaust after your header needs improvement?

It definitely needs some tuning help or maybe even some better ignition but for a stock port engine I'd say that's going to end up making some nice power when it's all said and done. It's certainly very promising. I wouldn't mess with the exhaust at this time. Get some heat shielding in there and get a nice insulated cold air intake on it. Then get the tuning straightened away until you see a nice smooth curve. Only then would I start to second guess the exhaust. You have stock port timing. The exhaust isn't really hurting you right now.

Where did you get the intake manifold?

Thanks for the comments, folks.

All the small stuff has been gone over. Grounds cleaned, new plugs, et,. The car is at the tuner right now to work on smoothing out the tune.

My next plan of action was a mazdatrix heat shield over the exhaust and hopefully a filtered source of cold air. I was debating taking a t2 hood and installing a custom panel filter in the vent to get cold clean air in easily. I'm still on the fence with this idea.

As for the manifold, I got it off a forum member a couple years back.

after all you've spent this maybe the best 400. you'll likely gain 30-40, or more if ignition is what was it hurting you.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...6a-etc-762225/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HKS-43001-AK...xVUSSi&vxp=mtr

An ignition amplifier giving 30-40 more hp on an unported nonturbo that is already putting down 170 rwhp? That's not going to happen.

I'm not sure that ignition is even the problem. Fuel is solid as well. After talking with the shop, they noticed some weird ratings on my tps compared to the throttle input and feel that the hesitation in the top range was from that. I'm going to measure for dead spots and probably order a new tps.

I plan on doing some data logging this weekend and I'll post it up. The tune has been smoothed out since this post as well.

Heat shielding is my first item of business. The intake manifold gets hot to the touch on the lower runners.

ok ok but here me out..
the fc guy in my says even my 300+hp turbo car runs fine at 11 afr and boost on Stock FC leading and trailing.
but the FB guy in my says it can't possible be good enough.. we DLIDFIS users won't use the stock fc coil.. i'll be using 2 bim024 and 2 aem dumb coils...

im guessing it comes down to charge time. the dizzy based coils only get soo much dwell time ever decreasing with rpm but..
with EFI the coils can be kept hotter thru out the rpm band because the ecu can start the dwell sooner. but the dizzy can only stop the charge sooner.. shortening the dwell??

right?

what would happen if i put 2 bim024 and 2 coils to the EFI computer... replacing the stock fc shared leading coil? im guessing it wouldn't be ideal because i can't change the dwell time in the ecu, and the coils may want more then what the stock fc computer gives... but i could do that on an aftermarket ecu.. i guess the end of the rtek is coming sooner then i wanted.

^you lost me lol. For my modest goals with this current motor, I'm sure the stock fc coils put out enough. However, the thought of upgrading to AEM coils has crossed my mind.

I'm also looking at getting a phenolic thermo spacer made for the lower intake manifold from Pineapple.

Ultimately, I'd be really happy if I could get it to 180whp or a bit more before I build a new block in my spare time.

get that dip figured out on the upper range and rev her till she flattens out.
Also, E6x wont run 4 coils in direct fire mode.

Dip figured out. It was the rev limiter being set too low. That is unfortunate about the direct fire though. I was seriously considering that upgrade. Any other nifty coil ignition upgrades that could help? Besides an additional wired in spark amplifier?

Add a heat shield to the intake to separate the header from the intake

I was running a custom shield at that time. I plan on making a new one soon.

Update?

No updates at this point. I lost a coolant seal in March of last year and decided to go full ham with a rebuild (peripheral port). Pineapple Racing is finishing the rebuild soon and I'll be back on the dyno for some tuning within the next month or two.

Ahh man that blows, but the bright side we're going to see a peripheral port? What sort of power are you trying to make and what rev range are we looking at?

I'm aiming for 270whp and above. The power band will be fairly narrow, but I'm also adding a few inches to my current intake runner set up/velocity stacks to move the RPM range down slightly. I'll also be running a TII hood with a custom duct to feed cold air directly to the throttle bodies.

Nice that sounds like a bad a$$ set up and I can't wait to see the end results. Keep us posted when you have the chance for dyno runs and such.
Are you racing?

Very nice output on stock ports. Well done!

Any update on this??

NOPE! The motor is still in the works due to a lack of reliable machinists. I'm hoping to find out some good news this evening. In the meantime, I've been gathering some more parts and foaming at the mouth.

Forgot about this thread, lol. The motor has been done for a couple months and is now tuned to 9k (minus some low end fine tuning). The new peripheral port made 252whp with my exhaust being the key limiting factor in power. If you're interested and would like more information, I have a build thread titled "the indecisive and slow s4 build."

This is nice, Congratulations