463 HP 21.5 psi t04r dyno
 

Done on a dynojet today. I'm happy with the results. 463 max HP at about 7k rpms, 21.5 peak boost holding nicely, and 381 max torque around 6k but it looks like about the same max torque from 5500-6500 rpms. Dyno sheet attached, YouTube link below. 11.5 afr until it dropped down to 11.0 afr after peak HP at 7k rpms. Pre turbo water injection, 93 pump gas, knock stays very low, fairly conservative leading timing and 12 split. I tuned it better for the 2nd run to get the AFR up from 11 to 11.5 at around 7k rpms and you can see the power difference there.

How do you think It looks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeP7l...e_gdata_player

can you get the run files from the shop? Then you can download the Winpep7 software on thee Dynojet site. It's a lot easier to analyze than some printout. That graph is not optimal to look at. The operator had it set to a split chart format but he had no wideband input. He also could have zoomed the window in better.

The numbers look fine. Some might say they are low for that boost level but honestly I think a lot of people are running around with some optimistic dyno sheets. Considering you've picked up a good 50whp over the stock twins maxed out, I'd say it's pretty good.

Ya I gave them my email and waiting for the files from them, I'll call tomorrow, I want to have the files too. I could also attach my datalog too. I only did 3 dyno pulls during a dyno day yesterday, and just turned up the boost to 20-21.5 the day before so not much tuning time. Afr was mostly between 11.1-11.4 and with little or no knock I'm wondering how much leaner I can safely go for more power. Thx

My ait's went up 20 degrees during the Dyno pulls, from 20C to 40C, I have a greddy 2 row fmic, I guess I should have upgraded to a 3 row a long time ago. I also had a 20 degrees C raise in ait with the stock twins at nearly the Same boost level on the Dyno. I will also install my larger water injector.

you're still going to get heatsoaking in a dyno environment

Ya, there was a nice big fan though, and my temps at the end of a run at the drag strip went up about the Same amount. I just bought a used greddy 3 row core so I'll see how much that helps in a week or two, hopefully it makes a nice difference.

u tuned it yourself?

Ya. Power FC, fc datalogit, laptop, plx r-500 wideband dataloging, street tuning

Hey nice numbers, so what are exactly ur mods done to the car?
I got a T04s and only made 384 @ 17 psi.
Khris

Any reason your injecting the water pre-turbo? You should be a few hp higher with that turbo. Whats the porting of the motor look like? Still not bad for a self tune. Khris, to4s is smaller but you should still be able to break 400.

thanks. Short mod list - T04R turbo, .96 AR, exhaust wrap on downpipe and on a divided exhaust manifold, mild streetport, my custom cold air intake, my tune, 850/1680 injectors max 88% idc (that will come down cause it was too rich up top), Denso supra fuel pump rewired with a relay in the hatch 13.8 volts all the time, got it idleing around 12.4-12.7 afr, 40 psi base. Power FC with datalogit, PLX R-500 WB. Greddy 2 row FMIC. Greddy catback, resonated MP. 1 Crane HI-6DSR Ignition, MSD 8224 leading coil, 2 NGK R7420-10 leading spark plugs and 2 BR10EIX trailing plugs with stock trailing coil. fraits near fmic outlet. Greddy elbow with greddy bov. Heat reflective tape on lim. Other mods in my mods list in my signature.

I thought I'd give the pre turbo wi a try, after seeing lots of members recommending it and for the knock protection instead of using expensive race gas. Also based on my own experiences with injecting into the greddy elbow, it really robbed power there both with this single turbo and when I tried it with the stock twins. Power feels good with the pre turbo wi, although I have not ran the car without it so I don't know how it would be without it. The pre turbo wi doesn't seem to affect ait, but it does a good job of keeping knock low, it does a much better job of that than a 50/50 mix of 100 octane race gas I was using with the stock twins.

It's a mild streetport done by djseven. I'm sure I can squeeze more power out of it with some more fine tuning at this boost level. Then I'll be up for running a little more boost to hopefully break 500 hp, but I may need bigger injectors and a better fuel pump for that.

Attached is my datalog and .dat files in a zip folder

I guess my inejctors probably explain why i got low numbers, i am only 550, 1300, however there was a guy in cali that made 437 back in 2004 or 01 with the to4s, offcourse it was tune by xs engineering , which is the same kit that I have. Well I guess I goona swap my secondary to ID 2000, and swap my pump to aeromotive fuel pump 340 lph. Then I will get a retune to see if it makes a difference.
Not bad for tunign ur own car, also r u running split timing? or how advanced are they?
Khris

what size nozzle were you running when you had it post turbo...a smaller nozzle at the elbow with a fine mist would have optimized the balance and given you bettet results probably injecting to much to the point where it robbed power...also adapting your map for water and/or alcohol inj is def not a bad idea.

Your boost explains why your power isn't higher, your fuel injectors don't determine how much power it can make, they are one part that determines how much boost you can run and still have enough fuel, I'm sure you don't have enough fuel for more boost. HP is made with boost and the proper tuning. I was also going to upgrade to the ID2000 injectors when ever it is needed with more boost soon, and the aeromotive 340 pump looks like a nice drop in tank option. The bosch 044 flows just a little more under high boost, but they are both supposed to be much better than the denso supra pump, the aeromotive would be easier to install, check out this test of all 3 pumps here http://realstreetperformance.com/sto...on-test-5.html

Split timing is 12. Leading timing drops down to 4 degrees adv. at 6k rpm in my map but logs at 6, and it goes back up to 14 adv at 8 k rpms, this is for my 20 psi boost row, a little more timing for lower boost, timing goes down as boost goes up.

I tried the smallest 130cc nozzle from aem in the greddy elbow (nice fine mist), still lost too much power for my liking, of course the smaller nozzle was better than the two larger nozzles. With the single turbo I tried the small nozzle in my ic outlet pipe and another same size 130cc small nozzle pre turbo, so that I wasn't injecting too much water overall, same result, too much power loss. Now I run the middle size 315cc nozzle pre turbo and power is better. I thought about putting in the large 550cc nozzle pre turbo but I don't see the point, I don't want to rob power if it's too much water and my knock is staying low so why inject more water. I may try it someday though.

Wow. Thats alot of HP for that pump. No? I was running the same pump w/ the same relay set-up and it was falling off a bit @ 420ish up top. Sp I upgraded. Maybe it was going bad.

Rx7.com says it can support 500 HP, I've had no signs of it falling off. How do you know it was falling off, assuming you tried adding fuel and it was still too lean?

Numbers look good. You trapped near 129 with stock twins at 400rwhp, Id say the dyno you are on isnt fluffing the numbers.

It will be interesting to see your new trap speeds with more power but probably less time under the curve. Any chance you can overlap your 400rwhp dyno on stock twins with the new dyno sheet?

Thanks. I will be going to the track thursday if it don't rain so we'll see how it does. There is a little more lag with the single and it takes a little longer to hit full boost after switching gears so I hope that doesn't hurt me too much. The t04r is a journal bearing with a large .96 AR so i guess that explains the extra lag. I'm trying to get all the dyno files emailed to me and then I can do a better comparison and a overlap. But it looks like with the stock turbos I hit 400 hp at 5400 rpm, with the single turbo I hit 400 hp at 5500 rpm. Stock turbos made more power below 5500 rpm. Stock turbos dropped below 400 hp around 7500rpm, t04r dropped below 400 hp around 7600 but it was also too rich there so with better tuning I will do today that power should stay above 400 hp longer.

The max torque with the twins was actually slightly more, but the torque curve of the single is better, it looks to stay between 370-380 ft lbs from 5400-6500rpm, with the stock twins it looks like torque falls off more after 5500rpm. But I need better dyno sheets and the files to see the data better. My stock twins dyno sheet is attached.

Precisely. This should be considered as benchmark of true numbers. Also, I think that there is a trend where cars with higher dyno figures never match performance of honest lower results:lol:

+1
This would be gold:)

Your motor should be sound. A bigger port would help though. I would spray the water after the turbo. You get a better cooling affect. If you are not dropping ait, either the turbo is heating the air back p or your intake temp sensor is not responding fast enough. If you have the stock sensor, that is the problem. I recommend the fast acting sensor with any water/meth setup. The stock one is just a dog. Also do not spray the water directly on the sensor. I like to have it a bit upstream to allow the air/water mixture to atomize. Go with the id injectors and either a bosch 044 of dual supra pumps. Also, I would ditch the MSD. I have used them many times and think their are total crap for these cars. They are fine for muscle cars and other applications, but we have had far better results with a twin power and a NEW oem leading coil. Simpler, cleaner install too.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have the fast reacting ait sensor in my intercooler pipe right after the fmic, so it does a good job of reacting fast to the air temps coming out of the fmic. With a 315cc nozzle pre turbo. The air temps logged climbed steady from 22 to 40 when I let off the gas. With the single turbo setup I tried a 130 cc wi nozzle in the ic pipe off the fmic outlet with the frait sensor in the greddy elbow, and I had the 315 cc nozzle pre turbo, running 18 psi boost. This setup lost power, perhaps it was too much water overall. I have not tried post IC WI only yet, I found many guys on here suggesting to only run the water pre turbo and it has worked good for me, power feels good and knock protection is good, except for not lowering ait. But I was thinking that may be because my fmic needed upgraded for this boost level so I bought a greddy 3 row. I may try post fmic water injection only but I like having the frait in the fmic outlet pipe so that it doesn't heat soak there.

How is the install of a bosch 044 as a in tank replacement? I know its not a direct fit replacement like the denso supra pump and the aeromotive stealth 340lph pump.

I have a crane ignition box with built in 2 step launch control and a msd coil and have had great results with it so I don't see any need in changing it.

Yes, please get the dyno files. The torque curve is too elongated in that pic of the sheet, it's too hard to tell where it really starts falling off. And having your old run files would be good too. It's good to look through the torque curve because it can give you clues where to tweak the timing curve.

Now, some comments:

1) You have two lean spots.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1315956548

One is caused by insufficient tip-in fuel. Sometimes you have to settle with getting it "good enough" for this kind of lean spot, but I think you have room for improvement.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1315956548

One is caused by errant cells in the fuel map

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1315956548

You might benefit from additional timing.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1315956548

Going back on the dyno would be best to determine this. After say 5400rpm you may be able to ramp it up on the leading. You are running a significant amount of boost with pump gas on a good sized turbo, and your dyno doesn't seem to be one of the questionably optimistic ones. Still, you probably have room to add timing if you're feeling a little greedy. If you're satisfied with the way it's running you could probably leave it as-is and it's unlikely to give you any trouble in the future.

Ya I don't know what the guys were thinking that printed my two dyno sheets, both should have been displayed/printed differently.

I just began trying to improve my tip in. Thanks for reviewing everything and pointing out the erratic cells in my map, I had surprisingly not noticed them being like that.

Since I was and still am tuning my car, I kept the timing conservative to be on the safe side while tuning afr. I got on the dyno this day just to see where I am with HP and because it was a dyno day, I will be tuning more, turning up the boost a little later and advance the timing a little more as long as the knock stays low, and I will end up upgrading the fuel system for some more boost. thanks

I figured I should add a picture.. Also did some afr tuning tonight and now the tires are breaking loose in 3rd gear, sweet.

Hey can u show a pix of the ur cold intake setup.

Ya you can see lots of pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom_truxell/

good thread here

At what RPM? Same tires? Thanks.

+1 on a good thread!

hopefully the shop will get you all your dynojet .drf files soon...

Looks like the tires broke loose as it hit about 22 psi at 5600 rpm, 25000 PIM boost, 11.5 afr, logged 7 degrees adv leading timing, knock 5, looking at a log of a 3rd gear pull today. I just turned up the boost last night and did a little tuning, 22-24 psi, so now it's breaking loose the tires much easier in 3rd gear. Same tires, 265x35x18 bfg g-force kdw.

Ya I know, I was supposed to get one email today for the single turbo dyno files, just sent them another message on fb, that place isn't too far away so I could drive there if I need to, I will get it back on their dyno soon again anyway. and still waiting for the the email from the other place where I ran it with the stock turbos, that place is like an hour away so I been trying many times to get them to email it.

I got the dyno file today. See picture attached, a better view of the dyno sheet, and dyno file attached.

I will be back to the dyno in the next week or two with my 3 row intercooler and about 24 psi boost, hopefully 500+!

yeah your peak torque area is 5200-6600 rpm which is pretty common for a big single. The output readings were:

Uncorrected: 442.17 whp 363.35 wtq
SAE (calculated 1.05 factor): 463.94 whp 381.24 wtq
STD (calculated 1.07 factor): 471.41 whp 387.38 wtq

conditions were

78.77F/25.68C ambient temp
28.77 in HG/.974bar ambient pressure
66% humidity

It's always interesting to see how things vary with the weather.

I'm surprised you didn't gain more over the stock twins. Will you fab another crazy cold air intake? Are you running the Ground Zero LIM now that you're single? That and a ported TB might get you a dozen hp, I think.

No I have the stock lim, uim and TB (with the normal mods). I always wondered if a TB would do much, and didn't think or know how much that GZ lim would help.

Tom,
Did you try doing some pulls in 3rd gear and comparing the mixture to pulls in 4th gear. i started street tuning 20 psi last week. In third gear I am noticing an 11.0 (still rich with pre turbo WI) mixture right now but in 4th at the same boost it dropped to 10.4 but I ran out of road at 6500rpm.. Wondering if you have seen the same.
John

Yes it is not unusual to see slightly richer mixtures in a higher gear. I think it can be because it will hold a klittle more boost in 4th gear and it can use part of the values from the row below the row that you are tuning, so if that row below is set with much higher numbers then it will run richer, you know what I mean? So try taking a real small amount out of that row below, assuming you are datalogging with datalogit. IT also could be if your air temp table makes the fuel too rich at higher air temps, because your air temps can rise a lot more in 4th gear compared to the lower gears. .6 change in afr is a lot, shouldn't be that much.

The stock twins made a lot of power for me and spooled up a little quicker and made just as much torque with about the same amount of boost so they were nice for the drag strip down to around 11 seconds, but twins were not capable of holding more than 18 psi towards redline. Both setups felt pretty equal on the street with about 18 psi.

Yes I am running the same style cold air intake I made for both setups, see my thread on that.

Makes sense to me placing it after. Isn't the H20 also being super heated as it's compressed? The 2 core might just be good enough w/the nozzle on the compressors outlet.

I don't think the water gets superheated, I think the purpose of injecting it pre turbo is to get better atomization, and it does something to the efficiency of the turbo if running high boost. The water soaks up some of the heat out of the air as it's compressed supposedly. And you're not supposed to inject water after the turbo if it's also before the IC, it should be either post IC or preturbo.

I shredded the 3rd gear in my tranny, check out the pic. I was doing some tuning, lots of 3rd gear pulls, right when I hit about 19 psi as the boost was still rising in 3rd gear it sounded like the transmission exploded lol. It was about time anyway, this tranny has been making a whining noise in 1st-3rd gear for a long time now, high miles, lots of drag racing on it, I have been wanting to replace it anyway.

https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6150...a40f2126_b.jpg