Tein HA's or Flex?
 

ok well, its time to buy suspension, and i want either the HA's or the flex. i know the HA's ill have to get used as they are not made anymore. anyway, i wanted to ask a few questions.

First off, HA's or flex... and whats the difference. if i remember correctly the spring rates are nearly identical.

secondly.... pillowball mounts, or no? i have never had a set of coilovers, so im assuming its just a replacement for the stock upper shock mount... if you know anything about them/what the advantages or disadvantages are/how they are adjustable, let me know.

lastly, its a question regarding the EDC... can it be used with the HA's? im assuming the install wont be too bad and they will clear the hood and rear plastic shock tower covers? for anyone using them, how do you like them? i know its really just a fun toy, but it seems cool, and almost practical.

thanks, heath

Flex is much superior to the HA:

*Flex allows ride height setting independent of stroke
*Flex is more durable and weather-resistant
*Flex will work with EDC, HA won't AFAIK.

Both have same spring rates and damper settings. The Flex comes with pillowballs -- these increase steering feel and accuracy at the expense of more NVH.

The EDC WILL not clear the rear shock tower covers and I really don't think it's necessary, but that's your call I guess. Adjusting shocks at the top of the tower is not very inconvenient.

hey thanks, rynberg.

ill have to ask you to define a few things for me so i can understand :biggrin:

what do you mean by the "*Flex allows ride height setting independent of stroke"
also when you are talking about the pillowballs, what do you mean by NVH? are the pillowball mounts a solid metal unit, or do they have a rubber dampener like the stock mounts?

the added durability/weather resistance of the flex makes it the obvious choice over the HA's, given they behave fairly similarly. and as far as the EDC, i probably wont bother with it.... its just a toy that would be fun to have, but frankly i dont want another box to mount in my interior :wink:

Look at the two pictures. You can see on the Flex that the ride height is set independent of the stroke length:

Flex
http://www.tein.com/img/flex1.jpg

HA
http://www.tein.com/img/ha1.jpg

NVH = noise, vibration, harshness

Metal pillowballs are just that, no rubber mount like stock.

The flex are also a bit softer than the HA and are more suited to daily driving.

really? they both run the same spring rates for the fd.i think the shock design is nearly the same between the two too.

Flex and HA's both come with pillow top mts. both are compatible with the EDFC unit, the flex has teflon coated threads and the tube is fully threaded so you can adjust the height independent of adjusting the spring like Rynberg said.
I have both and the flex's seem much more comfortable for the street, the HA's are not nice on the street.
Spring rate for the flex is 550 front and 450 rear, approx.
Not 100% sure if the HA's are the same spring rate.
Hope that helps.

This really depends on what the intent for the car will be. For a strictly street-driven car, the Flex is probably the better choice as the valving and spring rates appear to be softer. But, the Flex coilovers are twin-tube design and will not be as responsive as a monotube shock.

For a track-driven car, a monotube shock is the better choice. Monotube shocks have better response and tune-ability. The Tein RA's are monotube design ... I'm not sure about the HA's. I don't see the HA's listed for RX-7's on the Tein website. RotorMotor, are you sure that it's the HA's that you're interested in?

i've heard the quality has gone down on the tein's. is that true??

well thats exactly what im trying to decide. the new suspension is for my 20b project car. while im trying my absolute best to build this car for the street, it will be a dual purpose car and will most definatly see the track (although percentage wise to be honest... id realistically have to say 70-80% street driving. i want to track it... but its really going to come down to me having enough time).

That being said, id like the car to be able to handle both with ease. basically what id like ot achieve would be similar to something like a porsche turbo... definatly a street car, but can be taken to the track as is without issue, and will feel right at home there. think exotic hehe :wink: . but trying to create a car which can do "everything" is not an easy task, and i do have to pick my parts wisely, and make many compromises in order to try and ballance the two. clutches are a good example... im using the exedy sprung twin plate. i could have gone with somthing meant for the track with a horribly harsh engagement (that would have held the same power), or i could have gone with something like the ACT street/strip (which i possibly could scrape by with if i was gentle with the gas, however the engagement would be quite pleasant)... but i thought the sprung twin plate was a decent compromise between both (unfortunatly compromises can get expensive).

Anyway, what im trying to say (in a longwinded sort of way) is that im trying my best to pick parts that are versatile. Howard Coleman recomended the tein HA's or the flex, as he said the spring rates for these are extreemly well suited for the FD. howard knows suspension, so ill buy whatever he tells me :biggrin: ... so im trying to understand the differences between these 2 very similar shocks, so i can make a well informed decision before throwing money down on the table. sorry for rambling on... hopefully i conveyed enough info, so that the more educated suspension people can help me make a good choice. thanks again. -heath

People need to realize that when you say "I plan to drive it on the weekends and track it a few times a year" that you are not building a track car! If you only go to the track a few times a year then keep the car comfortable for the street so that you actually enjoy yourself the majority of the time. If you just go to the track on rare occasions there's no sense in building a car for the track. Build a car you can enjoy when you drive it the majority of the time: on the street.

correct! i am NOT building a car for the sole purpose of taking it to the track. however, should the situation arise id like to be well prepared :wink:

Everything is a compromise. Ultimately, a full-on track setup is going to make your back sore on the street. But, if setting fast laps is worth more than your (and your passenger's) comfort ... so be it.

My perspective on this ... go with the RA's. You can try them out in their off-the-shelf form and decide whether or not the valving and spring rates suit you. If not, they are rebuildable and Tein USA should be able to customize the shock for you. Shocks do not have good resale value ... so, if you opt for the cheaper version but ultimately need the better performance model ... you end up buying shocks twice.

I completely disagree. The RA uses 900/900 spring rates. Even Tein says they are not for street use -- track only.

The HA/Flex have the same spring rates - 560/450.

Tein HT
 

Take a look at the Tein HT suspension kit in horsepowerfreaks.com. Its a lil expensive but good coilover. Tein HT uses 1007/1007 spring rate.

It's interesting that so many of the Japanese coilovers use the same rates F/R... I remember Apex'i quoting me either 600/600 or 800/800 for theirs.... Based on the common 500/400, 550/400, 550/450, and 800/600 combos most track folk seem to go with in the states, i'm surprised that 1007/1007 would make the thing oversteer badly... especially coming out of slower corners under power.

damn... spring rates in lbs/sq. in. messes me up. how bout the type REs? if you're so bent on tein only...you get 16/16 Kg/sq. cm (895lbs/sq. in. i think), 16 way damping, full shock length adjust (can change height without affecting stroke), inverted-monotube design...Apexi has 12/12 Kg/cm with 13 way adj. damping, same features as the Tein RE but has a much more massive rod and shorter stroke.

got the apexi, best bang for its buck...but the REs were very close as well as the Endless funtion-B6

And what's your justification that it's a good coilover? Those spring rates are unusable on the street or on the track. I'm guessing Tein sells those as a "drift" setup.

you can buy different spring rates at time of purchase with an authorized dealer. HT's are all aluminum for better heat exchange... but the best kicker is that it is able to adj. bound and rebound separately. any coilover setup can be used for drift...it always comes down to driver preference. other than that...i guess they're not that spectacular.

just got my TEIN RE kit, cant fit to car quite yet, but unbelievably lightweight, 22 point adjustment (as with any flex+ kit, i counted them, before anyone notes the catalogue says 16) comes with pillowball topmounts all round and spring platform and ride height separate adjustment.

A great track/fast road set-up and reasonably priced, its not much more than the RA, but its a LOT more cash up to the RS kit to get remote canisters (seriously, how many laps do you really cane your car round before a pit-break, 20+? NO WAY!!) and separate compression/rebound adjustment.

note: you dont get the pillowballs with the HT kit, have to buy separately, IMHO teins damper designs work very well with the specced cars and the specced springs, the ability to adjust the compression/rebound separately is a feature that is likely to be used by people who will want the very hard spring ratings and do a lot of track work where this could be exploited, it may be 'overkill' for road use.

The flex kit is GREAT for road use, especially with the EDFC (soft on the highway, stiffen it up for a few corners, then soft again back on the highway, no bonnet-popping at the side of the road required!) i'd recommend it ANYDAY to the road driver. For regular 'spirited' driving and the occasional track session the RA kit is also great, although many people who drive hard find themselves winding the dampers all the way up permanently and even going up a spring rating or two. Following that, the RE kit is great for hard driving road cars which do the occasional track day.

Just my view!:-)