That was a purposeful mis-spell, remember I am the Mastah, not master ;)

Hi all,

Just an update.......

So I'm still looking for wheels, I'm on the edge of ordering 17x8.5 & 9.5 Volk ce-28's,(2-3 month wait from Machiii should I be contacting Rishie? never talked to him before..) perhaps the LE (ce-28 w/ polished lip) theyre somewhat pricy, but they got the sizing I want theyre nice quality forging, light as anything out there, and sweet lookin to boot....

As for suspension, I'd like to hear anyones thought on what I'm about to say....

Mahjik and Rynberg, ya both recommended the eibachs, however, after reading up a little, Its been stated several times that eibach users think the rear is not not low enough, and sometimes the front too low with the eibachs.

However, those with the HR spring seem to report even lowering front to back, and someone who had both said they thought the hr were both better balanced and perhaps a little higher rate/longer lasting at least from feel...

The listed drop overall is lower by a 1/4 inch for the HR's, but I think I would rather deal with that then dealing with the front dumped lower than the back.

I've felt since Ive owned the FD that the rear could use some rubber and some planting, and think the eibachs might disappoint my intentions.....

any comments?

As for bushings, I think I will hold out a bit longer and see what everything looks and feels like once I add new wheels, rubber, springs and konei's, already spending alot, if theyre shot, i WILL replace them immediately...

to all of you, thanks for all the comments and suggestions, youve helped quite a bit with educating my decisions

The problem with these cars is that everyone is different. Springs and wheels/tires seem to fit a little differently from one car to another.

I've heard that the Eibach's lower the car evenly and that they don't lower enough at the rear. Who knows? What is for certain is that Eibach's are linear springs, whereas H&R are progressive. I've went from stock to stiff progressive to really stiff linear again, and I don't like progressive springs.

If you are getting Konis, you can mount the Eibach's on a lower perch at the rear, therefore lowering the ride height at the rear only (and shortening the rear suspension stroke, but I've never had any issues there).

As far as wheels go....I like the Volk CE28Ns or LE37Ts. Good choice. And most definitely call Rishie at Auto RnD. He can't get them to you any sooner, but they'll be cheaper.

ahhhhh.....jeeze I missed that, I thought the HR's were linear too, yeah, I think the eibachs would be wiser then, I just play with the koni's as mentioned... thanks as usual man... :MissileSm

You could always look into ride height adjustable coilovers to get the ride height you want. I love my tanabes, havent let me down over the last 5 years :)

Yeah, I was lookin at the tanabe's too, like em huh? price aint bad either, leanin towards springs though, if i buy new staggered ce-28's, rubber, THEN coilovers, wow thats some major dollars for a peasant like me....hehhehe not to mention I'm in the middle of buying seats too..... :pity:

You seem to be more concerned with look. You aren't going to get looks & comfort cheaply. Here's my suggestion:

Wheels: 5Zigen Pro Racer GN+

Light, strong, inexpensive and come in good sizes/offsets for the FD.

Suspension:
Springs: RSR Race Springs
Shocks: Koni Adjustables

That will give you the even look you are after, but the ride is going to be more harsh. However, the overall package will be less harsh on your wallet.

I do? hehe maybe, I'm actually looking for a compromise but I'd like to think I was more concerned with performance while upgrading its look a bit too. I was interested in planting the rear down a bit because honestly (especially after driving a T-2 for 150k) I've felt eversince Ive owned the FD that it was a little tail happy, something from past experience a little planting and rubber helps...

I read some threads that really beat up on the eibachs how theyre way low in front and not low enough in back... so

as for coilovers, I wont buy unless the springs and shocks/rate are proper for performance applications so if I looked closer at the products, yeah, I wouldnt probably get..........

Also planning on going 17' staggered rather than 18 - saving weight and GAINING some sidewall....

Didnt think that was 'bieng concerned with looks more' but perhaps I'm missing your point?

not trying to be defensive, just curious what ya mean? :crazy:

Hey Mahjik, u say the zigens are fairly light? I'll go look at the weights if theyre on that big ole' chart thats floatin around.....

I like the looks of those actually,

thought I was doin the right thing buyin the super lite volks that look great too....or are you just tryin to save me money? lol!

The main problem with "super light race wheels" is that they are made for just that, racing. They aren't designed to deal with rough, potholed streets. Track surfaces, even the rough ones, are no match for streets where semi's and other large trucks are tearing them up. In some cases, it's better to get a heavier duty rim rather than "the lightest thing made".

The CE28N's will most likely be lighter than the GN+, however will you ever realize that difference? Unless you are doing time trials, probably not. Now, if you just like the look of the CE28N's better, that's another story.

I almost bought CE28N's as I think they are one of the best looking wheels for the car. However, due to the nature of the roads in my area it just wasn't a smart buy. I will be purchasing the GN+'s from Rishie early next year to use as track rims.

The FD is more tail happy than the FC. However, you add more power to any car and it's going to cause it to need more finese to keep it under control. The main thing about the FD is not to over-react and/or over-correct. It doesn't take a lot of movement to bring the FD back under control.

Those people usually complain about because they want coilover looks at Eibach spring price. That just isn't going to happen.

IMO, the whole "wheel weight" thing is just blown so far out of proportion that it's no even funny. I believe a lot of it has to do with a placebo effect of the "street racers" here on the forum.

The biggest complaint about heavier wheels, is lifting them with tires mounted to put them on the car. ;)

You keep talking about the rear drop of the Eibach's and not necessarily about how well they perform. That's where I'm getting that from...

Just wanted to add some comments:

*Mahjik is right about the wheel durability thing, in general. But I also have never heard of anyone ruining a Volk 1-piece forged wheel in any kind of normal driving. Especially in a 17" size. I've seen a lot of people ruin CAST wheels in 17 or 18" sizes, but not FORGED ones.

*Having the rear too high is not only an appearance concern but an oversteer one. My initial install of the HKS Sport springs left the rear significantly higher than the front. This made the car actually OVERSTEER in high speed turns (not neutral balance with power-on or power-off oversteer, but actually oversteering with neutral throttle). This evil tendency (which put me off track at 80+ mph once) was eliminated when I dropped the rear springs to the lowest Koni perch, greatly leveling out the ride heights.

*In my experience, as well as several other people I've talked to, wheel weight is noticeable on the street. Even when going from a reasonable mid to upper 40 lb combo back to stock rims/tires (38 lbs). Mahjik and I respectfully agree to disagree on this topic. :)

Mahjik all valid points, trust me I value them, as lets face it , I think you know the car better than I

I think you did misinterpret my intention however, the rear drop never had anything to do with 'looks' for me, more with my feeling or instincts of what would make the car handle better for my driving style, however naive I may be, I truly felt dropping the rear/ shifting the weight and adding some large 'gripier tires on the back would deliver a slight bit more grip and feeling in the rear, not saying that this is right, just my gut feeling... I feel as the car is now, the front goes wherever I point it, and the rear is just barely hanging on, we've all seen it in slalom pictures of stock fd's versus vettes etc. maybe I'm just wrong with this instinct?

I know I asked you earlier about pics of the fender clearance with 17's so maybe that led to the impression too, but honestly, I just wanted to make sure it didnt look rediculous, I like the close-to-the-fender look, but NOT at the price of performance...


In a nutshell what I was shooting for was this:

WHEELS: I want my fd to have larger tires for more grip (especially the rear) and at the same time equal to or better than stock looks, I actually find the stock wheels pretty attractive, too bad theyre not 17's and staggered like the later non-U.S. ones. Why spend on the Volks? cuz I dont wanna go cheap on somethin that affects the performance AND looks as much as they do (and dont see myself doing this again in the near future) the volk ce-28 to me is one of the best looking wheels imo that has the right stagger, then when looking at weight they were amazing! as suggested by you however, I will take a look at the Zigens, they look like a decent deal...Im glad you brought this up, if light wheels are gonna make my steering wheel 'jump out my hand' and 'break my wrists' on a bad strech of road, then maybe I should actually be seeking something HEAVIER, but my instinct was 'hey if I go light I can grow into it because its an upgrade, If I go heavy i might regret it and end up spending more on upgrading AGAIN....

more comments by users w/ bad experience with lighter wheels for street use welcome.....

Call it naive, Ive never owned REALLY expensive light weight wheels, also wondering, at this light are they vulnerable to bending/denting if hitting a bad pothole? I was wondering if this would be an issue already as well....



The springs and shocks are worn, and by replacing w/ upgrades hoping to make the car A) a little tighter B) a little lower resulting from a+b perhaps a little less roll and more initial grip, and C) least important but a nice bonus, a little lower in looks to compinsate for the new wheels, and just a better look....

On the other hand, my car will probably rarely if ever see the track, but that doesnt mean I wouldnt like it to be able to on occasion if the opportunity arose,
so I'm also fishing for info for what NOT to do in this build,

All in all, this is what I'm thinking right now:
eibach+konei adj. most likely, or, REAL coilovers only (proper rates for performance etc- if some great deal comes up on good ones,) this is unlikely however, the adjustability is nice, but if its just for looks it not worth 1k extra or more to me...

Staggered 17's decently light, with =or greater looks than stock

Best bang for buck tires, preferably with decently firm sidewalls, (daily driver not gonna waste super soft expensive tires on bumper to bumper commute :)

after alignment and install of the above, check suspension for flaws in the soft parts (only after cuz I usually wait to do upgrades when stock wears out = saving money by possible one time replacement)

Wow thats a long Post,

Mahjik thanks for your imput, I regard your opinions as saving me from myself :rlaugh: lol

Rynberg, the oversteer that you spoke of is exactly what I was talking about, perhaps my stock front is worn more than the rear, but my butt dyno tells me this car in general could use a little drop in the rear.....re-assures me that I wasnt going completly wacky heheh...

I also failed to mention one of the things that came to mind when looking at the lighter wheels - My car is near stock, with many if not most of you FD rotor-heads around here, youre probably runnin more hp. I figured lighter wheels on my 'underpowered' FD may even make a slight but noticable difference in acceleration, and possible but less likely noticable braking.

I'm basing this on personal car experience...

'lighter' wheels on my 250 HP 79 Camaro (lol) felt like they actually made the car slightly quicker..... and stop quicker........

On my 365 HP 69 Firebird it had enough power/torque to make it feel like there was very little difference.... 4 wheel drum, breaking always horrible lol! couldnt tell...

Keep in mind that spring rates also play a factor in that equation, not just ride height. You can be assured that a company like Eibach is not going to put something out that doesn't have a purpose. For instance, their E46 M3 springs lower the rear more than the front, so there much be a reason for what they are doing. ;)

BTW, I did track my car on the Eibachs:

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...P/9F9B4039.jpg
http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...P/9F9B4040.jpg
http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...P/9F9B4542.jpg
http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...P/9F9B4543.jpg
http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...P/9F9B4553.jpg

That was a few years ago, but you can see they were just fine. ;) The gap in the rear is more than other springs, however with aftermarket wheels it's sort of an illusion:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Picture147.jpg

That's fdeeznutz's car with aftermarket wheels and Eibach's. With the stock wheels, it makes the rear gap more pronounced. Granted, the gap should technically be the same as you aren't really increasing the overall wheel/tire diameter, but the larger wheels help detract from the gap.


I can tell you that I run heavier rims on the street and notice very little difference. You won't really notice the difference all that much unless you are really pushing the car, and that you shouldn't be doing on the streets in the first place. ;)

Another one of the suspension gurus, Howard Coleman, recommends plain ole stock OEM shocks.

So to get an even ride height with the Eibachs/Konis, rears should be set on the lowest perch and fronts should be set on middle or lowest also?

If the rear seems to be higher, why would you also lower the front? :scratch:

With Konis, you never run below the highest perch up front, unless you want to see how long it takes for the tire to rub a hole in your fender liner and fry the harnesses. Hint - it doesn't take long.

Lol ok thanks. I was asking because I have a set of Konis in my basement that I haven't even touched yet so just trying to gather some info.

BTW MrVon if your lookign at 5zigen these aren't bad either if you want lightwieght and FD offset: http://www.5zigenusa.com/blkracing.html

It really sounds like it is a matter of where you want to place your money. Here are some comments I would make on the information I have read so far.

Wheel weight:
I have had ultra lightweight forged BBS RGR, and a heavier/cheaper motoform wheel that I have now, the one thing that we overlook is the weight of the tire. The Bridgestones are actually pretty light IIRC. However, I put a 255-40-17 Falken RT615 on my 17s and oh my! Those tires are heavy! They make light wheels into a heavy combination. So if you are real worried about wheel weight, be sure to not only care about the weight of the wheel, but also the tire. The CE28N is one of my favorites as well, I would definately support you getting those!! :) FWIW, I DEFINATELY could tell a difference in 10lbs of wheel/tire weight. (My track wheels are way lighter than my street wheels, but my track tires are a lot heavier, because of the increased sidewall stiffness. The combo is slightly HEAVIER than my street wheels, because my street tires are so much lighter, they make up for the increased wheel weight)

Suspension:
Of chief concern here is fixing what is worn out. First do the Pillowball bushings, then make sure you replace the strut hats when doing the shock/springs. Also check to make sure no other bushings are in need of replacement. I purchased Tein Flex coilovers when I re-did my suspension, and they ride WAY nicer than my Koni/Eibach setup that I had before. They can also ride way stiffer, depending on damping adjustment...that is their biggest advantage, they are 'more' adjustable. Add that to the fact that they were engineered to be one unit, and that sells me on the $400 price discrepency over the Koni/Eibach setup (but you also get the pillowmounts included with them). If you track drive, and I do, the range of adjustment alone is worth the money...that and the fact you can corner balance. I love these coilovers as a street/track/looks comprimise! If getting slightly cheaper wheels means you can go with a much nicer suspension set up, I would do it. However, that is my opinion. Exactly where you want to spend your money is definately your choice.

If I was you I would also look at the drivetrain related maintanence items that need attention. I bet your differential bushings could stand to be replaced, and I bet your aluminum engine mount is also in need of attention. Might as well knock those out while you are in the mood!

After that stuff is done! Enjoy...and look forward to the next time you GET to have fun with the maintanence on this exquisit example of automotive engineering!

my $.02

Brian Kraemer

I Have Rt-615's And I Can Say They Are Heavy But For The Price In The Sizes They Come In The Performance Cant Be Beat

Ok guys, well Ive decided on a setup, its already paid for :)

Mahjik, please dont think less of me lol!!!(since its far away from what we originally discussed hehehe)

So, I didnt even realize how close I am to Rishie at AutoRnD....I work like 6 miles away!!

I discussed with him in length what I was lookin for, lucky me he intercepted me when I walked into thier showroom....

After discussing suspension, and costs etc, he and I thought that the new STANCE coilovers w/ a 10/10 setting would be the ticket, because of its low price (and so far great performance according to those already using them both street and track...) The cost was really not much more than a spring/shock setup, considering I would need upper mounts which, come with the coilovers....
I had been considering these already, but was wary about the high spring rate, but after talking to Rishie and Dana at AutoRnd, I'm completely confident that they will be more than acceptible. if theres any longterm issues, well hell they werent anymore expensive really than shocks and springs, at least I can adjust these to my preference...

I'm also going larger than originally intended on the wheels - 18x9 and 18x10 AME Wheels, not as light as the Volks but super durable, I dont have the offset numbers, but I left that completly to Rishie, who said the wheels he was putting on where set-up by himself specifically for the FD with an agressive lip on the inside with a nice flush seting towards the outside - translation - a whole lot of meat that he's guaranteein to fit like a glove :)

I spent a little more perhaps than originally intended, but Rishie hooked me up with a great deal, (he's good to us clubbies ya know..) His knowledge and enthusiasm for Rotaries is priceless to an appreciative novice such as myself...

So, I will definetly be giving you reviews (and hopefully pics) of the ride when she's done, theres acouple parts on backorder, so itll be 3 or so weeks before we can put her back together....

that all being said, DONT STOP POSTIN ON THIS THREAD IF YOUVE GOT ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT SEMI-AFFORDABLE SUSPENSION AND WHEELS FOR THE FD I think this thread has been pretty informative (no thanks to me) for the more novice FD owners like me that are looking for the same answers, we've got some pretty knowledgeable dude's opinions here for all to use, hopefully someone else will find it as helpfull as I have...Keep postin! discuss! argue!! :molepoke:

Haha Dave, you made a "bad" mistake heading into RnD. It's damn near impossible not to buy something...expensive...once you're in there. :D

Seriously though, Rishie is a great asset to the RX-7 world and I'm glad you got a setup you're happy with. Once your stuff comes in...shoot me a PM and we'll have those beers.

Oh, and Cozmo, thanks for your input as well, I believe I had the aluminum mounts replaced w/ the rebuild so that should be good, but the diff would probably be worth looking at, as well as all bushings, duely noted :)

Hey Rynberg, I most defenetly will be Pm'n ya' !! cant wait get her back!! lookin forward too tossin a couple back!! :beer:


Rishies' a helluv a guy, so are the other guys at AutoRnd, I'm glad I didnt go anywhere else, they mentioned ya too hehehe