R-Compound or Extreme Summer Tires?
 

Hey guys,

I've been deliberating heavily on whether or not I should go to R-Compound tires or stick with a more street-friendly, Extreme Summer tire. I haven't tracked my car once, but I'd like to do maybe a little drag, a little auto-x and if even once a year or every other year, a true track day.

My car is a fair weather car. I go to great lengths to avoid driving in the rain. However, I do live in Florida, so it's inevitable that I'll get caught in the rain at some point. And, that's where my concern lies. I fear that investing in R tires may put me in a tough spot one day in the rain.

Additionally, I've read that the R's take longer to heat up and so in normal driving conditions they may not reach temperature and my ultimate goal of pure grip for the street will really be lost and in actuality, I'd have less grip than if I'd gone with an Extreme Summer tire.

I'm considering three tires:

Toyo R888
Dunlop Direzza ZII
Bridgestone RE-71

255/35-18 - 8.5" CCW Classic
285/30-18 - 10.5" CCW Classic

The tread life isn't really a big concern of mine, because I'll only put 3k-5k miles a year. If the R888's have "decent" wet traction and I can take a long road trip with them at one point without too much fear, than that's the way I'd lean simply because I want the best grip in the dry I can get. But, as I mentioned, if getting them to temp is going to be real difficult on the street, perhaps I'd be better off doing something else...?

Thanks for your input guys! I appreciate it. I've read up about the tires and understand what they "should" do. I'm particularly interested in hearing from those that have used these tires in the past.

By the way; I'm running a single turbo GT40 @ 13psi now - looking to tune to a higher number in the future. So, the car is making a fair amount of power. I figured I'd include that so you would know what grip levels would be necessary.

Nick

I have R888s on my S2000 at the moment. They are LOUD. And don't seem to be particularly sticky for a "track-only" tire. I would bet that the RE71R (currently on my FD) would give them a run at the track. While being a LOT more streetable.

I ran Nitto NT01s on the FD one summer and found them to be very streetable, and actually had very good grip cold. Even after the rears were kinda "done" for track duty, they were still OK on the street. Like any R-comp, not much hydroplaning resistance.... But I think they'd be your best bet for a "streetable" R-comp.

But I think for your usage you're probably better off on RE71R or ZII

ZDan,

Thanks for the info. It's really surprising to hear the R888's don't seem that sticky to you. From the info I've read online, most regard it as best, outside of the stickiest Hoosiers which don't really provide any protection in the rain.

I haven't even considered the NT01's to be honest. The only other R compound tires that I was considering was the Yokohama Advan's. And really the only reason for that, was because they seem so popular with the track cars in Best Motoring. My feeling there is that if they're that popular with that group, they must be a good tire. Perhaps this is flawed logic...

Do we have any direct comparisons out there of the R tires, like the Advans and the R888's head to head with the RE71, or a similar tire? I'd be really curious to see that kind of data. A TireRack-like test that crossed performance categories and compared the Extreme Summer against the R-Compound.

Nick

The triple 8s are suicidal in the rain! Def not safe.

Re71 are a safe bet. I do love the advan 050 048 tyres, seem middle of the road for most conditions

From 2016 NASA time trial rules:
https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...cial_Rules.pdf
TIRES:
1) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: BFG R1S, Goodyear Eagle RS AC (auto-
cross), Hoosier A7, Hankook Z214 (C90 & C91 compounds only), Hoosier Wet DOT (if
used in dry conditions—see section 5.6) +22
2) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier A6 +17
3) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of
40 or less not listed otherwise in these rules: BFG R1, Goodyear Eagle RS, Hankook Z214
(C71, C70, C51, C50), Hoosier R7, Kumho V710 +10
4) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier SM7 +9
5) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier R6, Hoosier SM6 (note:
Continental Tire Sportscar Challenge EC-Dry tires (225, 245, 275) OK) +8
6) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Toyo Proxes RR, Hankook TD,
Pirelli Trofeo R +7
7) The following DOT-approved tires and those R-compound tires with a UTQG treadwear
rating over 40: BFG Rival S, Bridgestone RE071-R, Maxxis RC-1 (examples: Kumho V700,
Kumho V720, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup & MPS Cup 2, Nitto NT01, Pirelli PZero Corsa,
Toyo R888, Toyo RA-1, Yokahama A048, etc.) +6
8) DOT-approved (non-R-compound) tires with a UTQG treadwear rating of 120-200
(examples: BFG g-Force Rival, Toyo R1R, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec,
Bridgestone Potenza RE070, Kumho Ecsta XS, Yokohama Advan A046 & Neova AD08,
Hankook R-S3) +2
9) Non-DOT-approved racing slicks +30 (of any origin--re-caps and re-treads are not permitted)

R comp for sure given that you are in Florida. Don't even bother with the extreme summer stuff.

NT01s are very streetable, and cheap. Great grip and very reasonable price.

R888s are good but get freakin loud and have some bad manners when worn.

R-comps are a terrible idea for the street. To be honest, sub-200 treadwear street tires ("extreme" performance) are also a waste anywhere but the track.

I agree 100%

Drive a car with power and no traction control and report back. 100 tread wear DOT tires work well on the street when it is warm and dry.

My car spins the tires into 4th gear with 200 tread wear tires.

we use the R888's as rain tires, they seem to do ok there. i think on the street you would heat cycle them out before they wore out, so you'd end up with 4 noisy bricks. we used to run the R888's in the dry too, on the race car, but its been a while.

we did run a set of NT01's on the race car, and they lasted quite a while, so i'd maybe lean that way. no idea how they do in the rain.

hoosiers are a no go, at least the R6/R7, no tread. they would be heat cycled out in about 2 weeks of driving too.

Sweeping generalization. Hoosier A7/R7 are a terrible idea on the street. NT01 are fine, if you avoid standing water...

Unless you want more grip and more precise handling, and aren't too concerned about tire life. After running Michelin Pilot Super Sports, I'll never go back to anything less performance-oriented than Extreme Perf. In fact I'm about to go back to NT01s as street tires for the FD. RE71Rs were a huge improvement over the PSS, but still aren't up to 500+ hp. One track day and the outside rear is below the treadwear indicators...

Given the massive rainstorms that seem to come out of nowhere here, I'd stay away from anything like an R888. They're a poor choice unless the car lives on track.

The RE-71R is just a great tire for the street. IMO it's the perfect choice for a high powered street driven FD :icon_tup:

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Goodfella, you're running the 71's currently aren't you? Everything else aside, how's your dry traction? Have you ever had drag radials? Can you compare? I have drag radials now and am happy with straight line traction, but of course the sidewalls are too soft.

One other consideration was available sizing. It seems like the 888's are available in tons of sizes. I was considering a 265/35 and 285/30 setup. The Toyo's even come in a 295/30 size which makes the sidewall height almost perfect front to back. I know having sidewalls the same height won't give me a performance advantage but aesthetics are important to me as well.

Thanks guys!

Nick

Hydroplaning resistance is an absolute must for any car driven on the street, unless you're only driving the car to the track. You never know when you're going to get caught in a sudden rainstorm.

Also, streeting R-comps means you're going to wear them out post-haste, whether by heat cycling or simply by tread wear. Spending $1200 on tires every six months is not my idea of a fun time.

If you don't track a car every couple months, driving on sub 200 summer tires is a waste of money. You'll get 95% of the same performance from a cheaper 300-wear sports tire that lasts longer. You're better off changing to R-comps at the track.


Well...shit. That's a different story. Carry on.

Do you have a locking LSD?

Valkyrie
Hydroplaning resistance is an absolute must for any car driven on the street, unless you're only driving the car to the track. You never know when you're going to get caught in a sudden rainstorm.


I daily drove for years on DOT-Rs on my FC and I live in a temperate rain forest.

When it rains and there is deep standing water you just slow down on the freeway so you don't hydroplane if your tread is worn low. How hard is that? You learn to ignore the horns.

Actually, the most street-able DOT-Rs I have used are the Maxxis RC-1 because they have a 20 degree lower operating temp than the usual NT01, RA1, R888 compound, they are quiet and have a nice stiff sidewall.
But they are a full slick, so you gotta keep it to around 55-65mph on the freeway on skinny 255s to avoid hydroplaning in a 3,000lb car (depending on alignment- camber helps).

Going really wide on the tires/wheels brings hydroplaning down to an even lower speed.

There is a steep learning curve on DOT-Rs. It can take some experiences to learn when they will have heroic grip and when they will have zero grip.

I recommend the original poster get RE71R and a pair of MT ET Street Radials on 15s or 16s for the drag strip.

I'd recommend the non-R tires as well. They tend to be more forgiving at the limit, which makes it a better tire for learning smooth fast driving on the track, and a safer street tire. Most R-compound tires also tend to have a limited number of heat cycles in them too to be competitive. And some tread is really nice for the occasional wet drive. R-tires also tend to be pretty stiff - as a generality.

I really respect Goodfella's recommendations, pay attention there.

As for sizes, the 255/35 and 285/30 is a good fit for stock fenders (maybe a roll in front) with proper offsets.

Detroit TrueTrac helical diff.

Agreed, it is not a huge deal. Driving around on ET streets is the equivalent of running a racing slick on the street. Probably worse because of the soft sidewalls.

R-compound.

with merely 255/40/17 , The Maxxis RC-1's held nearly 700rwhp in 2nd gear on 80mm single turbo 20b FD3S on the street. Spin them over once, get them warm, and they gripped so hard it was mind blowing.

Clear choice this go around is NT01's for more width, in 18/305 on 35 sidewall.

You recommended me to run the RC-1. Best choice ever.

I've got two sets of track wheels, so one set of 18x10's w/ 285/30 R888's, and one with Hoosiers.

I use the 888's as "warm up" wheels, and to drive too and from the track if I don't trailer. They'll be fine in dry conditions (I don't take my car out when it's raining much anyway), but honestly, I HATE R888s... the grip is terrible, and they're very "uncertain" feeling... on track I turn in very gingerly to "see what I'm going to get", and they're really slow. They are also loud and heavy.

Michelin Pilot Super Sport street tires are amazing, and I'd bet fairly similar in traction, at least initially, to the 888's. They'd probably get greasy on track, but I'd stick with street tires on the street.

That is interesting, I had a different experience in terms of R888 manners.

I really liked the R888 I ran and they were old (4 year old date code).

In the size/configuration I ran (295/30-18 on 18x11 Front&Rear) they had a great sidewall with nice response and very precise.
Because they are really precise it was easier to over-drive them and break out of traction with rough inputs compared to the sloppy soft sidewall NT01 or Hoosier or BFG R1. But I enjoyed the precision and adapted to it quickly.

I felt they were very predictable when driving over the limit- no problems coming into a turn hot with the rear out and driving out whatever line you choose.

I am sure some of this difference in manners is down to different sizes of tires/wheels that we are experiencing the R888 on.

R888 warm up fast even on the street like the NT01, but they are even louder.

The R888 probably do give up cornering grip compared to even the NT01, but I can't be certain since they don't make NT01 that will fit up front wider than 255 (all too tall) and I much preferred the grip and manners of the 295 R888 to the 255 NT01 up front.

My experiences are at auto-x and kart track where precision matter a lot more to ones's times than on a track.

I tell you a tire I hate, but its really fast.
I am on 285 BFG R1S now on the 18x11 and they have great grip, but they are sooooooo sloppy. It was a struggle at first to get that great time and not hit cones. Have to drive way further away from the cones and let the car wander around...

^ I too have similar opinions about the R888's.

They turn in well, grip well and are probably the best wet condition r-comp tire available (tied with the RA-1 imo). What I dont like about them is that they cycle out very quickly and if you cook them, they blue out on the edges easily. And yes, they are stupid loud. NT01s are supposedly the same compound but they dont cycle out like the R888s however they dont do as well in the wet. This is according to a few buddies, I've never used NT01s on my car.

With newer extreme performance street tires closing the gap on entry treaded r-comps, I find extreme performance tires as the better choice unless you go all out (Hankook TD's, Slicks). They handle comp temp better, last longer, better road manners, etc.

BTW Peter, if you think Michellin PSS are sticky wait until you try out the Bridgestone RE71r's. Not even comparable!

Monsterbox R-compound.

with merely 255/40/17 , The Maxxis RC-1's held nearly 700rwhp in 2nd gear on 80mm single turbo 20b FD3S on the street. Spin them over once, get them warm, and they gripped so hard it was mind blowing.

Clear choice this go around is NT01's for more width, in 18/305 on 35 sidewall.

Sadly NT01 don't put the power down in a straight line worth crap.

I daily-ed on 275/40-17 NT01 through 4 sets and they just spin spin spin compared to 255/40-17 RC-1 on the same FC.

Do the 275/35-18 Maxxis RC-1 this time around Monsterbox!

I think the 20 degrees F operating temps really help the RC-1 (its actually a street tire compound in a slick carcass) and something about the internal tire structure to where it has a stiffer sidewall than the NT01s, but still hooks straight-line better.