Help! just got back from autox
 

I just had some fun times at autox. I think there is something wrong with my setup or my tires. I had so much understeer that on my 2nd run when I pushed it, i plowed through 4 gates and ran over 2 cones. I would turn but the car would just go straight, id hit the brakes no help, had to come to a stop just to get out of the slid and by then I'm already over the cone.

Last 2 runs I took it easier, improved my last run by 5 seconds and last 2 runs were clean. The thing is the part where everyone just halls ass because its mostly stright but with slight turning. I could not really go that fast because as soon as I would start to speed up the front would start comming loose. I know I had to take it much slower than everyone else.

My front tires are "federal" which are the ones that were slipping and the rears are good year aquadreds which are bald but they never slipped and always were gripping good.

BTW, my car is an 87 sport with front and rear strut bar, and polyurethane bushings. Other than that the suspension is stock.

What does it sound like the problem is?

Trouble in autox
 

I just had some fun times at autox. I think there is something wrong with my setup or my tires. I had so much understeer that on my 2nd run when I pushed it, i plowed through 4 gates and ran over 2 cones. I would turn but the car would just go straight, id hit the brakes no help, had to come to a stop just to get out of the slid and by then I'm already over the cone.

Last 2 runs I took it easier, improved my last run by 5 seconds and last 2 runs were clean. The thing is the part where everyone just halls ass because its mostly stright but with slight turning. I could not really go that fast because as soon as I would start to speed up the front would start comming loose. I know I had to take it much slower than everyone else.

My front tires are "federal" which are the ones that were slipping and the rears are good year aquadreds which are bald but they never slipped and always were gripping good.

BTW, my car is an 87 sport with front and rear strut bar, and polyurethane bushings. Other than that the suspension is stock.

What does it sound like the problem is?

Shitty tires, along with possibly improper driving technique. Also, what are your alignments settings? Tire pressures? There's a lot of things that can contribute to handling balance, but running two different non-performance tires on the car certainly isn't going to allow you to be fast...:)

Well first lets start with what type of tires you got? Whats a federal? Like DOT? Also maybe your air pressure is to high. Did you check it before, during and after your runs? What were the average temps out there?

I checked it before it was at 32 all the way around.

Well I dont know what the alignment is, but I know its off. After doing my bushings I didnt have it set. The tire pressure all the way around was at 32PSI.

When the front end looses traction first that is called "push". Once the front tires are pushing they have lost grip. This means that A) using the brakes will make the push worse and B) turning the steering wheel more has no effect. Once pushing the only thing to do is wait for the car to slow down, no sense in fighting it. Take some of the steering out, back out of the gas and wait patiently for the front end to come back as the car slows. Then attempt turning again.

Yea well on my last runs I got the hang of it and I was starting to lose traction at low speeds. I basically took my tires to the limit were I could almost feel them start losing traction and I did improve my times by 5 seconds, but still the times werent all that great.

K the tires are Federal super steel 635 which are M+S

just keep driving and you will get better.

Oh but you see, last time I went to autox I had a pro drive my car during a fun run. He wanted to show me the way to do it... hehe he only got 1.3 seconds faster time than me. He asked me if it was turbo cuz it had some power, I told him no. Then he started telling me about how shitty my tires are, and how my suspension isnt very stiff.

So this guy is a pro in the SCCA and he only beat me by barly anything on my car... doesnt that tell you something more than just my skill level? Note he told me my tires were reall crappy.

So, hopefully, you are realizing from our suggestions and the "pro's" suggestions that you need to get some real tires....:)

What you need is new tires all the way around. And 32lbs is too little air in my book, specially if you have a stock suspension. try running 40lbs all the way around, if they were any lower, i found i was driving on the sidewalls.

Bad alignment can really effect the handeling too.

Yea except some of you are telling me that I just suck at driving...

They didnt say that. They just said it COULD have been due to the driver.

When driving other people's car I always keep one thing in mind: This is not my car. He's better than what he showed you I bet. At the same time his ego is secure enough that he didn't feel the need to impress you ;) He was trying to help you, not break records.

...it's not the amount of time he beat you by, it's the percentage of lap time. 1.3 seconds on a 30 second course is a world different than 1.3 seconds on a 50 second course.

That's a big improvement; great job. Not to take anything away from your fun, but if you found five seconds you were going terribly slow. Don't view that as a let down, view that as the ability to improve. If you found five seconds in a day odds are there were at least a few more out there. The last bit of time takes the greatest amount of talent to achieve; the law of diminishing returns applies.

Yes he was trying to show me how fast he could run it. He said watch what time I get. The course took me 50.1 seconds so figure 1.3 seconds he did faster than me. I did not even ride with him in my car, so he wasnt showing me the proper way to autox, he was showing me that he could get a faster time.

What helped me on my last run was braking to put the front down right before a turn. If I didnt do that for even the slightest turn I would start skidding without control until I came to a stop. I watched everyone doing that fast car and they were going so fast mostly everyone rear end would start to try to swing out. My rear end never even in the whole race lost traction except for when I launched. The front of my car was the one that wasnt getting much traction.

Oh you know why i was going so slow? because I kinda didnt want to run through 4 gates and run over cones again on my next run. Plus it was a big course, the best of the best got 55, which werent really even cars just some go-kart looking thing. My time was 72 for my best run and the ones where I basically had to come to a stop 3 times I got 77.

Seriously though the guy behind me that was a novice and I was talking to him. He had a j-spec turbo celica with azenis tires. He never lost traction once he said. I was losing traction all over the course... even going slow like you said. If i went faster I would miss gates and plow through cones and have to stop again. See your still telling me basically that its not my tires or my car, its me that doesnt know how to drive.

How many different events are we talking about??? What class was the car that ran a 55 in? What class were you in?

The driver's job is to get all the potential out of the car. If you did that than nobody can ask for more. If you didn't do that you have room to improve. If you want to find out if you're as good as the other drivers get rid of any excuses such as tires and suspension setup and compete head to head with them.

Yup thats exactly what I want to do. I was just asking you guys what you think. I pretty much already knew my tires are shit, but just wanted another opinion. Actually the fastest novice ran like a 68.4 and I ran a 72.

I didnt really pay attention to classes out there. Didnt care, cuz I was just there to have fun. Oh it was a blast though.

Good to hear you had fun. Tyres are definitely a problem in this situation, but you should also keep in mind that all street cars are setup with a natural tendency to understeer from the factory and this includes the FC. What kind of suspension setup do you have? I'm assuming stock?

In my experience however, the FC can be made to handle pretty neutral in an autocross course. I managed to keep it pretty neutral even with 560 treadwear tyres! People noticed I was sliding but it wasn't confined to pushing. Biggest thing to keep it neutral with a stock setup is with the Trailbraking technique. Keep in mind though when you start to push it takes quite a long time to recover due to the way the car is setup.