Are aftermarket thicker sway bars really worthwhile for a street car?
 

Was looking at the Racing Beat bars in particular. I know Tri-Point makes a killer adjustable bar but I think that is overkill for my application. When/if Englishtown opens up their roadrace course, I plan to roadrace my R1 fairly frequently (monthly in the nicer weather).

My searches turned up a lot of mixed opinions and advice, with many claiming that the thicker sway bars would just add to decreased comfort and predictability for street driving. I probably should just call up damonb and get his input, but it's always good to start an informative thread here for everyone's use :)

Hell no, all that weight will only slow you down.

I added a set of RB sway bars last year. I wish I did it 6 years ago when I first got my FD.

I think they completely changed (in a good) way how the car handles/feels. Much less body roll, although there wasn't too much to begin with, and seems to handle quite a bit better.

I have not autocrossed my car with the sway bars on, but the ability to rotate without throttle application has been enhanced.

I have the Tripoint 188 front bar and 93 rear bar for my 95 FD and find it to be a perfect set up for both street and track.

I think thicker sway bars would be benificial no matter what you plan for your car. It just makes your car feel better.

And BTW---From what I'v heard the roadcourse at englishtown is gonna be for karts and bikes only. It's gonna be very skiny. Although there is another roadcourse opening in jersey this summer.

I use thicker front and back bars on the street with lowering springs .The thing corners great and I do not mind the slightly harsher ride .The ground hugging is well worth the price for the change in ride and flat cornering .

SWIFT SWAY BARS RICH, SWIFT SWAY BARS. GET THEM AT WWW.ASPECPRODUCTS.COM

DO IT! DO IT!

For street? I doubt the money invested is worth it. If you are going to autocross, it's a whole different matter. It's a matter of balance. My 1983 1st gen handling for autocross was significantly enhanced with the addition of a large front swaybar and stiffer bushings. It really increased the oversteer tendancy of the car and enabled it to be pushed through 90 degree turns over carefull application of throttle. How this affected it on the street was similar. With sticky tires and the right pressures, the car could be made to have pretty neutral handling for the street and freeway (speeds around 75 mph). Without the tire pressure adjustment, the car seemed a little tail happy on freeway entrance ramps. Anytime you make adjustments to handling with sway bars, you have to look at the total package. From my perspective with the current settings on my FD, I don't think I'd waste the money on a larger sway bar unless I intended to return to autocrossing. By the way, my car was onwed and setup for autocrossing by a very successful autocrosser in Wisconsin. The car's suspension is pretty much stock with the exception of some very significant front end camber adjustments. It's pretty squirly at speed. I think if I were to do anything with this car I might someday move more toward track day events. At that point, I might return more to the car's original settings. An addition of a front sway bar without something done for the rear would seem suicidal.

Um, those are an assload more money than the racing beat bars :).

Good feedback guys, keep it coming!

Rich, I think you should stick with the stock bars.

You are running coilovers with much stiffer springs than the typical aftermarket lowering spring. I doubt you need more anti-roll than you already have. Going to big bars reduces the independence of the suspension.

Once you have coilovers with good spring rates, IMO, the only bar "upgrade" that would make sense would be to get an adjustable front bar to dial in the amount of understeer you want for DIFFERENT track environments.

Short answer -- with your coilovers, I think adding bars is unnecessary and may actually be detrimental to the handling of the car. Especially adding a larger rear bar.

"An addition of a front sway bar without something done for the rear would seem suicidal"

Would you care to elaborate....Mazda99Nikon....

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Tyler. Of course, I have a nice shiny Rotary Extreme upgraded sway bar mount (one of the last Chuck produced).....I still plan on installing that one of these days.

I agree with Tyler. With coilovers sways would be a waste of money in my opinion. When I used to have just upgraded springs I was thinking of going with some thick bars, but since then I got coilovers and the car is amazingly flat and predictable. I couldnt really see how the car could stay much flatter to tell you the truth...

Rich, the tri point sways aren't that pricey first of all, secondly they're so sweet, thirdly and totally irrelevant they are red and will match your shit.

Jack:

Maybe some track experts would care to chime in (Damian where are you?) but from what I've experienced autocrossing and pushing my near stock suspension to the limit a time or two, the 3rd Gen tends to naturally oversteer in its stock state. By placing a larger sway bar up front, that tendancy is going to be exagerated. That's not a bad thing for low speed autocrosses. But let's look at doing about 70 or so into a tight turn at Road America or Hallet or better yet, coing out of medium speed sweeper and the second turbo comes on line. What will happpen with all that oversteer. Huh, end for end swap would be my guess. I for one wouldn't want to test that theory. That would be nasty in traffic.

Rich, I'm by no means a suspension expert. But, My friend had the old style RB front swaybar (the really thick, really expensive, out of production (I think) swaybar) and went through several toe links ( I think that's the correct term) ( the dog bones). But the car handled like it was on rails. Also noted, he had Tanabe Sustec Pro SS coilovers, and the RB swaybar brace.

It may have been due to some other factor, but that's what one of the suspension techs in this area attributed it to. Take it for what it's worth.

Joe

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.......again, HAHAHAHAHAHA funny man... I love this forum! Tyler again with killer advice too!

IMO, upgrade the car after you can out-drive your current setup. Tighten the nut behind the steering wheel first.

Well with over 10 years as an Instuctor with the Ferrari, Porsrche and BMW I can give you your answer. I larger front bar will introduce understeer or a push which would neutral the oversteer the stock trim 93 FD had.

That's pretty good Kyle. :rlaugh: Is that for sale, or can I borrow it?

I have the RB bars with H&R springs on stock touring dampers. The rear bar has 2 stiffness settings, mine is at the softest. I drive it regularly on the street and also take it to open track days, autocrosses, drag and drift (it's multipurpose :D ) I like the setup very much.

I won't take issue with what anyone's saying here. All I can report on is my experience autocrossing an FB and playing a little with my FD.

I did check an interesting chapter in Mike Ancus' "Mazda RX-7 Performance Handbook."

To quote on Page 36, "Stiffness is a condition induced by stiffer sway bars, shocks and struts. The stiffer your car's front or back end is, the more likely that end will rotate. Since most RX-7s tend to oversteer in a turn (rear end wants to come out), some racers actually remove their rear sway bars completely to decrease stiffness."

Ancus talks at length about sway bars on page 39. It's worth a read to anyone with a 3G car. He seems to believe that the sway bar should be the last item added to suspension mods. Springs and shock mods should come first and then, add an adjustable rear bar to balance the car for your application.

For what its worth and as ive finally had the car on the track. With nothing more than tien flex's and a good alignment i was able to quickly and very nicely dial the car in with a couple clicks on the shocks and a few psi in the tires. At this point it would take a lot of convinving for anyone to make me think i need anything more than the stock bars. And as was already said the driver is far more important than the car.


It sounds like your interpreting that backwards. The stiffer end will slide first. Meaning a stiff front = push or understeer
a stiff rear = rotation or over steer

To clarify the reference for your understanding, when you add a larger roll bar to the front of a car you induce understeer, when you add a larger rear sway bar to the rear you induce oversteer.

The cars stock bars are pretty balanced as is. I took my stock suspension/tires out to an autoX, and could control the car through corners with the throttle. If I wanted the rear to step out further, just apply a bit more, step out less then let off a bit.

I agree with rynberg, if you desire the ability to control which end slides first, get an adjustable bar, otherwise, only get new bars all the way around if you have the money burning a hole in your pocket.