ABS for old school cars?
 

I posted this in another area, but never got any good responses......

I was wondering this....

Can you convert an older car to abs? For instance, could you put and abs system from a 1990 FC onto a Datsun 510 brake system and have it work? I would think as long as all the lines and sensors were installed, it wouldnt matter. Am i wrong???? Is it possible???

by the way, the brakes would all be upgraded disks. I just wanted to know if abs could be used as well since its a big performance booster for braking!

yeah it can be done. the hardest part woud be installing the wheel sensors, and running the wires to those sensors. they would have to be nearly perfect th work properly (ie the sensor probe be an exact distance from the sensor wheel) I would recomend a system from another car as the pumps for fc's are not that reliable, but then again without the turbo heat it may be ok. Another thing is you would probibly need to get a larger master cylinder for the increased volume and flow resistance of the pump. Hope this is what you were looking for.

-E

Yes! Thats what i wanted to know (if it can be done)

Im not set on ANY brand/model of abs, just using rx7 one as a example.

So basically the ability for it to work right hinges on the placement of the sensors relative to the wheels? I have lots of patience for this sort of thing, so any more information is greatly appreciated...

Graham

Yes you can.

The sensors are important to have placed right to give the proper feedback to the ABS computer, they work like a magnetic trigger on a distributor. measure the distance between the probe and the trigger wheel on all four wheels before you remove them. Another thing is mount the pump very securly, it will make alot of torque and vibration when it is in use.

Mounting the trigger wheels may prove to be impossable without machining capabilities. This i have no idea how to go about doing since there is an extra flange on the hub for them in cars that were originally equiped. If it's for the 510, maybe there is a car with semi similar hubs/suspension parts that was equiped with ABS? I dunno it's a big gap in time from a 510 to nissan's older abs cars.

I wont discourage or encourage you on this one (i hate it when i get replies that just say "dont do it") I'm just shareing what i know. Just be careful when testing the brakes afterward, we dont need any datsun/pedestrian hybrids :)

-E

Oh also if you find a car with a sutable system, be sure to use parts from only that system, ie dont mix and match componets. I know you already knew that but i just wanted to make sure :P

-E

HAHAHAHHA, pedestrian hybrid!

Seriously though, thanks for the suggestion. I know its not going to be easy, but acess to machining parts and whatnot is not a problem. Its a design and pateince thing so ill just take my time.

The thing that kills 510s in braking is lack of ABS, so this seems like a REALLY good mod if i can get it to work. I wont mix and match, good suggestion.

Thanks for the pointers....

you dont need abs on the 510....just get the 280ZX's brake booster including spacer. the brake lines will require a little tweaking.

How could abs hurt? Its the technology that has allowed for drastically reduced braking capeability in modern cars (as opposed to the 510 era). Also, did you notice why Tod Kaneko's 510 lost in braking in the Ultimate street car Challenge? He had big brakes and sticky tires, but no ABS still proved to be the weak point. If you have suggestions as to why it would be a bad feature, im all ears!

From what I hear, ABS is good for keeping control while slowing down, but a good driver that knows how to use the brakes w/o ABS can stop in a shorter length.

Now this would seem likely, yet i still wonder how valid it is. For example, any car magazines with professional drivers at the wheels consistently stop better with abs versus non-abs. Are ferraris and lambos and porsches non-abs cars? Since they are the premium cars with maximum intentions for performance, then wounldnt they all be non-abs?

Im not trying to pick on you here at all, im just trying to find the best answer. I would be willing to bet the best reason for NOT having ABS is the added complication and weight. Best reason TO have ABS would be vastly improved braking distances....

Any other ideas??

Good point, maybe ill use that as a base for what system i look for. Ill try and use as much of a system as i can (minus the rotors and calipers) so that i can get it working right.

A lot of sports/exotic cars did not come with ABS. Vipers only have ABS now that the new model is out...I don't think Diablos had ABS, but Murcis do.

sure, abs isn't necessary when you can Threshold break in Rain - how many of us can do this?

on dry surface, you can be good enough to avoid certain things.

and sometimes, No ABS can be whole lot of fun when you lock it in middle of the turn

Ok, im putting together what i might need for ABS on a 510. I plan on redoing the suspension entirely, so changing hubs is no problem...

So far, this is what it would seem i need:

Front Hubs 89-91 rx7
Rear Hubs 89-91 rx7
Abs Pump 89-91 rx7
Abs computer 89-91 rx7


Anything else other than the lines? Would the computer have problems with the fact that this is on a lighter smaller car than the original rx7, or does the computer even take that stuff into account when applying the abs system?

If i can get a whole list and get it to work, ill put a writup on this website (if anyone feels creative and is thinking of doing the same type of brake upgrade). Thanks!

Graham

I would highly recommend using a newer ABS system if you are set on doing this. Older ABS systems do not pulse the brakes nearly as fast as newer systems. I have driven both ABS and non-ABS FCs at autocrosses with R compound tires (ie Victoracers) and you cannot brake as fast with our older ABS. You can definately modulate the pedal faster with your feet than the ABS can in my oppinion. For regular street driving the RX-7 ABS should be ok, but for threshhold braking and racing I would look for a system from a newer car.

- Cooper Lacy