What is better option PFC or Microtech
 

I have to decide for my single project.
I was gona get PFC like everyoneelse but THE PFC now on back order.
and my local tuner strongly recommands Microtech.
I like the Idea of datalogic also I can keep the OMP if go with PFC.
but I have to pay for datalogic box.
Microtech I have to give uo the OMP but it comes with new harness so OLD harness can go! also I can buy handset for 200 and some what outperformes the PFC..

What is better choice?

Who is going to tune the car?

if your tuner likes microtech, then I would go with that, he probably has more experience with it/ likes it better.

I've had both. I really like the Microtech better. But as stated you should go with what your tuner is most familiar with.

BINGO!

-S-

Microtech has slightly less resolution, but doesn't matter all that much. I feel more tuners are familiar with the PFC.

Oh whada you know.... you don't even own a FD!!

-S-

Power FC

Microwreck = gheto ;)

Do yourself a favor and look into the new Haltech E11.....VERY nice ecu....

Do yourself an even bigger favour and use a real ECU like an Autronic SM2 or SM4.

Seriously ownes all the other pretenders on the market, pm enzo250 or frode of this forum and get with a decent product v's the plethora of garbage thats hyped up to be decent when its far from it by comparison to real top shelf units.

Autronic is the top shelf but with a middle shelf price :) :) :)

Do yourself the BIGGEST favor and check out the other cars your choice for a tuner have done and in that way you can make a decision based on the actual results.

Good Luck.

and there in lies the BIGGEST FALICY in this *game* that you base a decission base on a persons limitations and or bias rather than that of a technicaly superior product (on paper and in reality) !

anyone competent with basic level of ability can tune an Autronic or a motec, if your tuner/god of choice recommends against it and suggest another based on their lack of skills or knowledge then they are pretty useless in my books ;)

seperate the hype and garbage from reality and find competent people to do your work and you will be fine ;) thats the biggest and best advise you can have :) :) :)

I dont think Crispeed said to go to a tuner because of their limitations, he meant go with a tuner based on their results, regardless of management. Like you said, if a tuner is good, he can extract power regardless of management.

I run a Electromotive TEC3R, have had excellent results with it. Now is it technically inferior to other products as well because my tuner suggested it? I don't think so. However he also did NOT say, oh dont go with so and so management because it sucks, he based his recommendation off of past hard real world experience and results, not hype or bias as you put it.

I would stick with what is proven to work within your price/budget, as we all know not everyone has the funds to buy a top of the line motec.

hear hear, lol. Seriously, I've seen great results with the haltech and microtech. IN the 1/4 mile I think microtech has proven itself time and time again. I'm using the lt10 and don't expect any issues from it. It's a fine ecu that again has been proven.

I'm been semi-looking at getting a new EMS. I'm currently using the E6k, It runs the car great, its just old and doesn't have the features that i want to play with.

I really want to play with the new Electromotive TecGT, I know a local guy that is running one in his Subby, i'm going to check it out sometime.

Given the options you presented, as a former Microtech owner, I'd get a PFC. I'd put a Megasquirt in my car before another Microtech.

I agree. I feel like a religious zealot when I talk about my SM4, but it really is that good. In the 'low end' price range, I don't think there's a better choice.

Why is that? Reasoning, facts, something.

also curious. what sort of problems did you experience?

The Microtech is basically a sequentially injecting electronic carb. I think that it's one or two steps better than a Holley Pro-jection setup; at least the Microtech isn't TBI. If I were racing my car (e.g. WOT 99% of the time), then the Microtech would be great: it's easy to set up and it'll hold an AFR under load. The car I drive is on the street 99% of the time, and tuning the Microtech for all of the different running conditions just sucked. I never got the drivability of the ECU where I wanted it; I spent a lot of time datalogging in all sorts of situations, and the ECU always needed fiddling.

Once I went looking at other ECUs, I realized how much the Microtech lacks. It's 1980s ECU technology being sold to the aftermarket in 2007. It has no comprehension of engine volumetric efficiency (VE), so instead of doing what a computer is good for (math) it requires the tuner do a bunch of unnecessary work. It doesn't have a good suite of output controls to perform arbitrary functionality (e.g. complex boost control or water injection), and last time I used it the software sucked.

I moved to the SM4 because it had most of the power/control of a MoTeC M800, without the cost. I'm not a big tuner MoTec (I've only worked on a M48 in a 3 rotor, and looked at the new M800 V3 software), but I prefer the SM4's way of doing things. As far as the Megasquirt goes, at least they're using some modern fuel contro techniques; it's not all about pulse widths and correction maps.

As an example of what a modern ECU is capable of, check out this video (copied without permission, I just want to save the original host's bandwidth):

http://www.andern.org/alexander/movi...ronic1cell.mov

It shows how powerful the Autronic's internal VE modeling is. Watch the AFRs on the run with only one cell in the fuel table. I've done similar tests, and it does work this well in the real world.

I would say Haltech based on the feedback from my tuner. The E11 is supposed to be out of this world according to my tuner.

Like most ECU's people use here, 70s GM boxes LOL...

Haha I've owned 6 of them:lol: and have a bunch on the shop right now. I'm most familiar with the PFC but am also Haltech certified. I honestly prefer the Haltech but alot of people don't want to do the complex install or pay for it.

a7r -

thank you for your post. i have been agonizing over this EMS decision for about 2 months now and no one has given me any REAL input - despite my asking. the manufacturer's websites are useless. maybe my reseacrh tactics have not been the greatest, i entertain that thought, but i try. at any rate, you have provided me with the first bit of useful info, as opposed to people that spew without backing info and or those that simplt speak in circles.

1

now I'm getting some real information.
thanks guys and keep comming.

Sm4 price? ballpark?

Heres my opinion, I don't claim to be an expert tuner, or any expert on anything, but; if you can't control when each injector fires vs e shaft position, if you can't control each injector and spark plug individually, if you can't datalog and tune with multiple thermocouples( besides mutliple o2), etc, etc then you're better off using a carbureator!

I've sent you a PM.

I've got some opinions on the gear I've actually used, but at this point I'm pretty biased. I was considering the Autronic SM4, any of Pectel's ECUs, and the newer MoTeC ECUs. The Autronic's feature set is really impressive, even if you ignore the fact it's inexpensive by high-end ECU standards. If you've got a dealer in your area, give them a call and ask if you can come by and watch them tune a car from scratch. If you've tuned other ECUs, it will open your eyes to how things should be.

make no mistake microwreck are a certified joke v's any decent computer ;)

the points outlined by others are how it is, if you want to fit a hideous piece of garbage to your car simply cause *it runs 7's* then your a moron and pretty much its made for you :) :) :)

for normal people there is a plethora of product out there that is much better in every regard, BUT not for the talentless shops who want the simplest/easiest/biggest money profit margin option to flog to you in their best interests.

I'd use an Autronic any day of the week, for you US rotary people PM enzo250 of here, he is the man ;) ;) ;)

Myself I would go PFC any day of the week over Microturd and the Apexi is well supported.
Im running a PFC at the moment but will upgrade to the Motec MR2 for the 13B as this offers greater resolution and whole load of new features and the price is quite competitive.

I would reconsider the M2R; it's just MoTeC trying to make some more money off of their old M4 ECU design (which is good, but dated). If you're going to buy anything MoTeC, get into at least an M400. Otherwise, I would look elsewhere.

Honestly the Autronic shits o the Motec, we have M400's and M800's at work and apart form the nice gold case they cant do what an Autronic will ;)

throttle/manifold mapping anyone & proven auto tune :) :) :)

they are the best ECU around for the shit we do with them.

tune 0-100% throttle (off boost) then type in what AFR you want for any boost level after that via a table and it does it perfectly, no guessing, no headaches, amazing feature and great product. go buy it ;)

the best motec can come up with is quick lambda which is ghetto by comparison, I know cause I have used both extensively. Autronic hands down........... and the others well dont get me started haha

I guess I'm a moron just like all these other guys.LOL. http://www.microtechefi.com/microtech-racing.php

Hype does sell ;)

dont confuse it for quality or any level of precission though, both of which are totaly not needed in drag racing, just look at the fastest on the planet = mechanical injected !

argument over :) :) :)

Cheers for the info Rice, a lot of Supra guys in the UK use Autronic but no RX7s as yet. Can you use the existing Loom in the FD with Autronic?
Obviously you will need a Bosch Wideband Sensor plumbed permently in the downpipe for the autotune to work or does the Autronic kit come with a sensor?

Auto tune in not the big sell on Autronic firstly in my books. its the throttle/manifold mapping that is worth its weight in gold that makes all other ecu options look like a serious joke.

If you want auto tune the best way and I recomend only way is to buy an Autronic AFR meter (a or b model) and use it to set up the ECU, once the ecu is set auto tune is not relevant anymore...... you only use it on initial tuning, only benifit is to cut tuning time down by about a factor of 10! compared to a pro doing it manualy, still needs a skilled operator to capture trends and do table set ups between zones but it does indeed take the human element of guess work out :) :) :)

On fd loom wise your best off pm'ing enzo250 he has done fd instals ;) I dont have one on my fd as yet but if ever i wanted to swap out the Apexi that would get the nod over an overated motec. And the other rubbish mentioned can be left to the hype merchants, I see the shit every other day and hate them with a passion for good reasons *again mentioned by others* lol

As Rice Racing said, you don't need a wideband controller installed all of the time. You're mainly going to use it to map the fuel tables; it's not needed again until you change something that will affect your engine's VE. Tuning the Autronic consists of correcting the ECU's vision of your engine's volumetric efficiency, not twiddling pulse widths in the time domain. This is why most Autronic fuel curves look pretty flat when viewed in 3D. Doing it this way is what makes the target AFR table work. rather than retuning the car to get to a different AFR at some point, you just tell the ECU that you want a new AFR. It deals with the rest.

I've tuned all of this with an Innovate LC-1, but I'm going to be picking up an Autronic Model B analyzer soon for comparison. The SM4 doesn't have a wideband controller built in (it has an analog input to connect with an external WBo2 meter), but it can directly interface with most narrow band sensors for things like closed-loop.

Autronics make sense... had no heard about it before....

I have a MicroTech, and is like people here said... at WOT is the one. I was able to tune my FD pretty well at cruse and also increase mpg though. It did take me a lot of cruse tuning and functions settings back and forth but mine is a respectable daily driver. Also... the do it myself is worth the wreck!! Went to dyno 1st time, got the reference, and it’s been 2 years or so since my last visit. So I'm keeping it for now ‘till I finish my next upgrade. Would definitely give a shot to that Autronic thing...


What's the cost of these units???

Im a microtech owner. I never had problems with the Standalone . It really depends on your budget. If you just have minor Mods like a hybrid turbo and stock ports. I would consider a Microtech only because it is the only Stanalone i have ever used on my car. It has reliabilty compared to a stock ECU. I have my MT for @4years now and replaced my motor once because i wanted to build some power. As of now my motor brings out low 400's to the wheels, with of course the
some other mods backing it up. This weekend with the same Standalone and supported mods im Cranking the boost 16psi and up. Im hoping good numbers. If im not satisfied ill just go back to the drawing board and start all over again. Remember its a hobby you like to do. Search and read read before you make the next step. Good luck on your decision.

I have PFC and I am pleased with it. :)

i am running a power fc my car runs beautiful ....it is making 417hp at the wheels on 12 psi of boost with plenty of room for more power

i have owned numerous performance cars and used a few different computers and i must say on bang for buck i rate the power fc way up there i mean how can you go wrong with such a great product

I have a TEC3 and love it. I also had a Haltech and got rid of it and went electromotive.

Anthony

those anybody have any experience with the electomotive and microtech and the autotronic? meaning in comparing all three. seems like alot of diff. opions on the microtech. so how about the auotronic and electomotive.

also, we all know anthony and erinie t have produced great #"s with the electomotive. so how is the support,features,ets. on the electomotive and autotronic? just trying to get more info from those who have used these systems. thanks justin

You can produce great numbers with anything. I've only used the Electromotive TEC2, and unless you were waving a ton of cash in my face, I wouldn't touch one again. Electromotive's offerings are more sophisticated than Microtech's, but they don't hold a candle to the current state of the art (e.g. MoTeC M800, Pectel SQ6, Autronic SM4).

If you want a TEC2, I know someone selling two of them for cheap; already configured to run on a 13B.