too much power
 

Hi

I've got a question. I'm building a 4 rotor i am aware of the expense and amount of work. what i am wondering is if the horse power from that engine is to much. with that much power can i get it to the ground is it possible to put the proper suspension so it doesn't just peel the tires?

Need more info about your set-up????????

I doubt that you'll be turbocharging the 4-Rotor so you'll likely be fine with traction. If you're going to turbocharge it then you won't want to consult anyone on this forum cause we'll have no experience with that much power...

lol.. thats kinda funny :P.. epic power

Is this going to be a drag car?

Who's building this 4-rotor for you?

I have my doubts about this even being real. Were all dreamers... haha someone once told me to walk in someones footsteps....not their words. I'll believe it when I see some evidence.

Belive what you want, but i belive that if i want something bad enough that it will get done. im just planning right now saving money so really why think of anything els but my dreamcar

im asking these questions because im deciding on the engine. i dont want to turbo it just because i dont. ive been told different things about power recenty. At first i was told a 4 rotor will push 600 to low 700's non turbo. but just the other day i was told 500 to 600 if im lucky. also that a turboed 3 rotor would give me even more. i didnt think that much power could come from a 3 rotor.

i am not building a drag car, i was planning on a track car. not a drifter. i had plans to put a "Dragvette 6-link independant rear suspension" i know it doesnt bolt up but its possible to fit.

im DREAMING of a 4 rotor but if i can get almost as much power for alot less money why not

this is what Mazda achieved on the peripheral ported 4 rotor R26B engine used in the famous 787B race car:

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1287760050

That's measured at the crank (about 690 peak hp for the solid line), and it used the telescoping intake system (not something you could realistically put together).

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...0&d=1287760004

600-700 is possible. High compression will be a MUST! You'll have a very nice reliable setup with that. Run your calculations 3 times before you purchase anything. It's going to be expensive.

I planned to build an N/A 3 rotor last year. I still don't even have an e-shaft! Needless to say, if you're driven it's always possible. Being logical though will help you finance it effectively and "quickly." Needless to say, there's no quick way to build a 4 rotor. He'll, most of the 3 rotor guys are still figuring things out...

i agree on the expence and that theres no quick way to build a 4 rotor. im just researching for the build.
soo whats your honest opinion is it really practical or doable? or can i get a bit less hourse power for alot less money out of a 3 rotor?

i doubt it will ever go anywhere. the build will cost at minimum $25kUSD, that said someone who drops that much money into the engine would have no difficulty finding a shop who can plant the power to the ground, with a wallet that fat.

am i crazy or does the fuel rail have 4 feeds? lmao, i like how its just got a stock FPR and pulsation damper though

we were looking at 3 rotor stuff and the 13G is a center inlet fuel rail with FPR's at each end.

Whats the point in loads of power if you can never use it?

I'd start by contacting those who've done it already...like BMI 4 rotor...or Pulse Performance in NZ. I think they even sell a 4 rotor kit..starting at 12k or something but thats' not too bad actually.

You don't need a 4 rotor, or even a 3 rotor to have "too much" power. Our current setup @ 620 rwhp will spin 345 Hoosier R6's through 70 mph, and we've barely scratching the surface as to the potential of the motor. A 2 piece shaft, a new intake manifold, more fuel, and we will easily be pushing 800+ to the wheels with pump gas and meth injection.
Now, you may not have the most tractable powerband, but if its power you want you don't need anything too fancy...
Figure out what you're going to using the car for, what sort of power and powerband you want, and go from there. Figure out your goals... it makes acheiving them that much easier. If you want the exotic sound or powerband of a 4 rotor, or even just because its different, then by all means don't settle for anything less than exactly what you want... but if its just for the power potential, keep your 13B and throw a ton of air and fuel into it.

your not going to make so much power you cant use it.. if you cant hook... bigger tire or a 4 link if it gets to bad

i did contact Pulse Performance they seemed from what Ive heard the best guys to go too, i just hadn't decided on the engine yet so i didn't go that deep. i figured I'd get a wide selection of input first.

I was going for the 4 rotor cuz of the power and its different. This was before i knew the potential of these engines. the 4 rotor is really too much money for what i want it for. sure its amazing but ill never use it to its full potential. and im not spending that much to be different.

I don't want a car i cant slam through corners. i know most of its suspension, I'm looking for over 600 horse and ill make it get to the ground.

Just remember, in the long run, NA is the MOST RELIABLE setup you can build.

AMEN :worship:

Realistically, Personally I dont see this project happening. I dont know how your finances are but if it was a 25k project, im sure you would have be seeing 4rotor setups very very often.

stay 2 rotor, there are alot of people that have made the 500whp club in a 13b.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1ZStKvjVTk

I think i will go 3 rotor, i've been talking to an engine builder says he can build a 3 rotor with over 600hp. Block is $7,000 and after intake manifold, injectors, coils,flywheel ect. it comes to about 12,000USD.
But like i said this is still the planning and priceing stage, im currenty recovering from surgury looking to start building this spring. untill that time i am open for all ideas.

Also if anyone knows about a better suspention than the watts link in my 85, i had plans for an 82 vette 6-link independant rear. it ends up fitting 2 1/2 inches wider on eather side. it can fit but it needs a frame and alot of work to cut down the 2 1/2 inches.
i dont want to be told this is imposible. i know its not the thread topic, so if you have suggestions please message me.

good luck doing a 3 rotor for $12K. However for that you should be able to get to 600 on a 13B. I am not knocking you it's just the facts. Yes I have experience in this department.

lol no problem, facts are good. this is what said
-engine built , ported ,pinned, and oil modification 7k
-block included
-turbo 500.
-manifold around 600$
-injectors around 500$
-pump 2 044 400$ or a1000
microtech 1400
-coils 6 55$ each
-clutch kit around 450$
-flywheel around 250$
-engine bracket 210$

plus radiator
fan etc

the engine has labor included 7k everytng included and all the other prices are an estimate can be lil less or a lil more

But you know your stuff. What would you ballpark this at? the 3 rotor/the 13B?

Good luck. Thats all i can say and yes i trully mean it

You haven't stated what chassis you are putting this in.

IF its an FD you will need a new subframe. Look up some of the vendors as I haven't priced them lately but I would expect $1500 +

Second gen you can use motor mounts for about the 200 you stated

1st gen not sure never put one in a 1st gen.

I don't know where you are gettting your pricing but I don't see it possible to get the proper parts (quality) required for those prices.

I was at $7,000 for a block and rebuild parts alone for the last one I priced. This is not a build you wanna skimp on w/ parts.

I am watching football and not giving full attention, but here is a short list of problems I see.

You are missing:

Wastegate
Fuel pressure Regulator
Fuel lines
Fuel rails
Intercooler + piping
BOV (has been debated but I am not taking any chances)
There is not a clutch around that will last at all for $450 (think multi disc)
Ignition (even if you have the stock coils, which I highly doubt you willl need an amplifier)
Turbo for $500? Closest I can see is a S475 and by the time you get it how you want it the price will be closer to $900
Oil lines for turbo (these are the little parts most people forget about that really add up. Those fittings are expensive.)
Rad as you stated
Tuning

Again I am missing some things but I really can't see it done under $15000 and doing it right the first time so that you don't have to go back and do again will run you much more. I don't price used parts on a 20B. It can and probably will run for a short time on cheap knockoff parts but when it fails get out the check book as it will be $$$$$$$$$.

Good luck. :icon_tup:

Ok it says right above my avatar 85 GSL-SE, fabrication will make things fit.
ive never priced these engines before, the two prices i was given came within 2 grand of eachother. so if im being given a cheap motor i wouldnt know it. thats why im on here to get professinal opinions. if you could give me a more accurate price and a builder i would appreciate it.

i know theres more to the engine than that list but as far as feul lines, rails, intercooler, and feul pressure regulator i dont need an engine builder to do this stuff for me. and its a little obvious im not using stock coils.

Thanks for the luck cause I did it for $12k. Yep singleturbo 20B in my 90 T2 for $12k and I drove it around town also planning to drag racing next weekend. Can you believe that I did the whole swap in 3 month?

The motor cost me $4500 which has a stud kit. If I listen to your scare tactic I would never think about doing a 20b swap but good thing I didn't. Good luck paying someone $20k+ in labor and wait 2-4 years to get it running. I got my 20B FC done in 3 month, it must sucked to be you? :D

i think a three rotor in the first gen is a little much for the track anyway.. especially a 600hp+ first gen.. i dont have much experience in that area but im running a third gen w/ GT35R at 485whp and it seems to be plenty on the track.. sometimes i have to turn the boot down for better stability.. if your really trying to build a track car.. i think you should just do a t11 motor or a 13bre and focus more on suspension and chasis... making a car handle on the track is way more important than power.. (no bashing.. just my opinion)

yah ive driven my first gen hard and it doesn't need the horse and it doesn't have much stability.
i have debated on ether framing the back half for the 6 like i want to put in, or building a whole frame to make the suspension install less of a squeeze. Then just section the floor pan to fit the chassis up inside a bit. me and my brothers have built frames before. i have thought about suspension and handling to go with the power.

lol and there's nothing better than an opinion from someone who knows from experience. i have no problem with Facts and opinions, its when people say ignorant useless comments that bug me.

Like my Dad always said . . .there is no such thing as too much horsepower!

This is ture, but if it doesnt get to the ground theres no point. Now all you have is a burnout queen. I noticed that the fact that power has to be matched with drivetrain, suspention, wheels and tires, and DRIVER is often overlooked. Theres so many people around jacksonville with 7 or 800hp cars with lowering springs. And they wonder why the <500hp rotary is faster lol!!!!!!!:scratch:

THANK YOU!!!

i had to have said that at least 4 times on this thread. That is why i started this.
My town is full of over powered rice rockets.
This is why I'm looking into building a frame with a 6 link rear.

what's the fastest thing you've driven, seriously

No it doesn't suck to be me. I am quite happy.

I am being realistic for most users. How many times did you have to open the block again? I know you had someone from P.R. come in and help out w/ a few things. Plus, I will never use a Ebay wastegate for any of my motors. How many hours did you spend on it?

He didn't state he was building it himself. Not trying to be a dick, but not everyone has that time to spend or welder to make a manifold, exhaust, etc.

It seems you want a pat on the back from everyone for not spending $20K to do it and your going to post it in every thread. I don't feel most people can duplicate it for that cost.

3 ROTOR:

If you are building this by yourself, then it can be done for under $20k easily. If you are using the best parts money can buy, then the price will easily go over $20k. If you are on a tight budget, then I know someone who has done it for under $15k. There is a guy on the RX-8 club who claims he did it for around "$7k" ( Which I doubt, considering you need to buy two rebuild kits and the motor, which already brings you closer to 8k unless you are RESOURCEFUL!

If you are paying for someone else to build this and buying the best parts, then $40k+ is easy. If you are paying someone else to do it and on a "budget", then $30k-$40k. If you are building a properly built track/race car the $50k+ is easy.

All builds will vary greatly, depending on how you go about it.

Well i wish you the best of luck with your build, and deff post pictures. I can only imagine how much fun its going to be!!!

Thanks for the support, when i get a camera ill get some photos.

Quads are pointless. You wont be able to run a 26b to the max, ever. You can run 8's with a 3 rotor, for a fraction of the price. And when shit breaks, parts are hard to find, but they are still out there. Soooo much of a 4 rotor is custom. Id love to have one. But were talking hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the car 100% finished, and then its still gonna break every couple miles. Not worth it IMO. But if you're hell bent, a street ported N/A 4 rotor would be good for 400hp if its tuned right. It will last longer then some big port motor, and make a lot more torque then a 2 or even 3 rotor. Just be ready to spend some bread. Only reason I think its worth it is to be unique.
BTW, Im drunk, so I just typed a bunch of jibberish, dont take it seriously.

What shop quoted you on those prices for parts and labor? Are they rotary specific????

Can he tune microtech or is he just going to install it?

Have you seen any of his work before?

Is this shop legit with fair turn around time?

I ask because i have been seeing shops saying they can do this and that, claiming to be top notch in their work and turn around time just to turn out to be full of crap.

Do you have proof this shop has handled serious work before? Like recently too, not work that was done years ago. With so much money to be handled its a shame for everything to be garbage in the end and a waste of money.

This is why you must do tons of research before you decide to rely on others for a job well done. Truthfully its hard for me to trust any shop. When shit hits the fan you try to blame them then they turn it around trying to blame you. Meh, its usually a big mess.

A few of my friends just recently had there cars brought to different shops asking for basically what your asking for (a complete overhaul + power)
The turn around time is all lies! Lucky for one of my friends it didnt take much longer and the work was as great as can be. Now the other friend is screwed out a entire fresh but now trashed motor and major delays all the time.

Its hard to gain trust but soooooo easy to lose it.

i dont know the name of the shop, the guy msg'ed me after looking at this. ive been asking who ever i can because really, i live in Toronto there arnt to many ppl who know their rotory engines.
so about your mirotech i dont know. i would hope he knows, i dont really want someone building my engine if they dont know their stuff.
if you want i can ask him if i can give u his name