T78 damaged exhaust turbine
 

So I go to pull the turbine housing off the T78 today and send it out for ceramic coating. Guess what...most of the turbine blades have gouges in them at the tip. I'd like opinions on what you think I should do...can I run the turbo like this? I'm assuming my other two options are clipping (which may yield even more lag) or a new turbine wheel which is probably $$$.

I'm attaching two images. Those in the know, let me in on your opinions. Help greatly appreciated.
Michel

Here's a closeup of one of the edges.

kit
 

how much did you pay for the kit? i am looking for a used one too.

No you cant run it like that, its now out of balance and will trash bearings quickly (if it hasn't already). I guess you could try a clip, rebuild, and rebalance but it will probably be pricey. BTW, who sold it to you like that? will they help you out?

A person here in Florida sold it to me. The original owner of the car got into a bit of financial trouble, dumped the car for virtually nothing. An inexperienced driver wrecked the 7 but most of the supposedly good stuff was intact. There wasn't really a scratch on the entire turbo kit. I was told it was in excellent condition and working order. They had BETTER help me out or there's this thing called small claims court :-)

I called GReddy today and lo and behold, they do not sell replacement parts for their turbos! Go figure...Everyone bitches about the RX6. Crap, from what I can tell, the T78 is JUST as bad.

There's no play in the shaft at all. Thing is, this turbo had, at most, a few thousand miles on it. Someone on the Florida list emailed me and mentioned a blown apex seal or the possibility of a well known shop in Florida swapping it out from another car knowing it was damaged (unlikely knowing the shop). Buyer beware definitely. I got screwed big time. But hey, payback is a bitch :-)

I'm going to try and contact some of the bigger shops, Innovative, majestic, etc...Maybe RX7.com knows where to have it rebuilt.
michel

heh looks just like my turbine wheel too...


i was in the same boat, bought a turbo told it was good. when i took the ehxaust housing off it was the same. mine is a garrett/ older hks turbo. i figured it was not enough to really cause any problems.
the person claimed to not know of the damage, and unless they ever took the housing off you cant see it from just looking at the turbine blades.

i suspect an egt probe broke and went through the turbo. or maybe just from the heat over time?

I have not noticed any problems driving on it this way for the last 2 months.

guess i will see what happens. i dont think its enought to mess the bearings up.

James
93 mb

Talked to Innovative...their reply was essentially the Mitsubishi stuff is crap, mass assembled and designed to be thrown away if they go bad. I've listened to various opinions on this kit and wrongly assumed this was a rebuildable turbo. Innovative won't touch it. Granted, they're probably trying to sell me something. This is turning into a huge headache. GReddy USA should be shot on sight.
Michel

thats to bad. you might want to still contact majestic. I thought that someone could rebuild them. I hope I can still get parts for mine.

I will agree that Greddy is a joke to deal with. on a few other parts i have they have been no help at all and really wont even talk to you unless you have a stupid recipt from an authorized dealer.

try taking it to a local turbo shop if you have one. Or most diesel turbo shops could take a look at the turbo for you. even if you could just get it rebalanced or get someone who knows about turbos to look at it and get there advice.

good luck.
James

I suspect someone can help you. pm Gordon, he's had his turbo rebuilt with diff wheels, he may know of a place to refer you to.

That doesn't look good at all. Looks like an apex seal went though there. Are you sure no one has parts to rebuild this turbo? Its very commonly used so I'd think someone would be able to rebuild it. I think Gordon has had his rebuilt. Maybe talk to him? Also, KD Rotary has a good turbo rebuilder locally. You might want to get in contact with Dave.

Did that. Haven't heard back from Gordon yet. I'll try Majestic on Friday. Too late to call them today. I did just get off the phone with Turbonetics. They thought that may be they could get something but in their own words that apparently it's such a bad design, GReddy doesn't want to offer replacement parts for them. Judging by his tone, he was a bit suprised by this fact.

Right now clipping "may" be an option but I really don't know much about the process. I know only the tips can be clipped but I'm not sure if this covers the entire tip or just the top end of the tip (part visible by looking into the exhaust turbine outlet.)

And what will happen to spool up if I clip it? I'm assuming it'll get worse as the gasses will have an easier path to follow on the outside of the turbine.

GReddy sucks.
Michel

I thought clipping produces faster spoolup at the expense of some efficiency.

I think that's true on a really restrictive exhaust housing like the stock twins. Not sure how it would affect a free-flowing housing however.

Mitsubishi=Shitsubishi. :(
Sorry to hear, someone should be able to rebuild it. You are better off going with a Garrett unit though.

Oh I know it...Garrett, maybe even a plain Jane To4 that's easily rebuildable. Thing is, I JUST bought the kit under the premise it was in good working order. Now I'm facing the possibility that I may have to shell out $2K for a new turbo. For the money I spent, I could have purchased a top of the line, all options GT35/40 kit. Thanks for the condolences glass....
michel

Mitsubishi LOVES to not provide replacement parts. I get my net service through a computer shop that also does TV and VCR repair work. BIG banner right over the sales desk... "WE DO NOT REPAIR MITSUBISHI TV's, VCR's, OR MONITORS due to MITSUBISHI's refusal to sell replacement parts!"

Real shame, too, because I have a great Mitsu VCR that has a minor (yet important) plastic piece broken. Can't buy new parts, so I scour everywhere looking for junk VCR's. In my searching I found a 42" projection TV, got it for nothing, 'cos it's a Mitsubishi and you can't get parts for it...

I'm just suprised that GReddy had gotten away with this for so long. I consider myself a fairly educated consumer and I was clueless to their lack of support. I haven't read anything on the list about the lack of replacement parts for these turbos so forgive me if I start shouting from the mountaintop about this problem. I'd hate to see any other rotary fanatic go through what I'm experiencing now. Even Joe D!
Michel

Part ARE available for the T-78. I can't find Atlantic's phone number but will get it to you tomorrow. They are in Lake Worth (about 30 mi n of Ft. Lauderdale).
They rebuilt mine after a misshap even coated the housings.

Its no different than their Air condtioners as well, some of the parts can be had, but it takes a month of sundays to get them, its often quicker and cheaper to get and install another air conditioner rather than fix the broken one..sad but true.. What does mitsubushi mean anyway, maybe its Japanese for yugo..Max

Bill, great! I just spoke to Gordon Monsen who also provided me with a bit of advice in terms of fixing the turbo. Just shoot me a PM with the number and I'll give them a call. Thanks! Things are looking up a bit, although I'm still having to shell out money that was ear marked for a larger oil cooler amongst other things. When I finally total everything up, I think a lot of people wanting to go single will be quite suprised as to how much I spent ON TOP of the "kit" to get it where it should be.
Michel

Well I sincerely hope it works out ok for you but these things spin anywhere from 50000-100000 rpm depending on how hard you push it. Thats about 1000 times around PER SECOND. In short, several chipped blades are PLENTY enough to kill the bearings. Imbalances in turbomachinary of any sort give very nasty vibrations. Good luck!

I'm going to have the entire unit looked at just in case. The thought that I almost did not pull the turbine housing really scares me. Good thing, huh?
Michel

The big question for me is how did the damaged turbine get by a very well known and supposedly reputable shop. Here's the scenario. Guy named Eric in the Fl. RX7 club gets in over his head financially and when the motor goes, he can't fix it. I wasn't aware that the engine had gone south. A certain Supra specialist purchases the car for nothing, supposedly fixes it, and sells it for a nice profit to a young girl who'd never owned a fast car before. She wrecks it. Off comes the turbo kit and all the other goodies to be sold. Now. If I were a shop that knew ANYTHING about rotaries, the first thing I would do is check the turbine to see if that blown apex seal took it out. Looks like they didn't do that. Things that make you go hrm...
Michel

i'm pretty sure www.micturbo.com can rebuild it. thank 13BAce for that link

Thanks sony (and 13BAce).
Michel