Nice pic.. i'm quite sure he's still on big street ports.....and only 1400 hp !
Why does he not choose a P-port motor ?? he did have to funds to experiment.

JD

Sometimes money isnt the issue if you cant get the thing to work. Plus as you already stated everyone likes to copy what they "know" works..

anyway whats the most Abel has made with a 2 rotor ? 940 hp or something like that... anyone know how big of a shot he used for that ? 150 ? 250 ?

thing is these guys are so secretative when it comes to this stuff half the time what they say isnt true or very exaggerated... who knows?

Very true. Probably the best comment in this thread. The only true way to know is to buckle down and build and test something yourself.

Dude, look at the times he ran that day! An 8.366@159.95 was the best he could come up with! Granted he might've had problems that day so that's excusable, but do you have any other NHRA events that he's been to and run a 7.6 like before? I don't think so, THAT'S my point, slap on the NHRA weight and it becomes apparent the HP just isn't there, MPH DOES NOT LIE!

When you're at this game money is very important....you could always pay someone else to get the job done if you fail !!!
Copy ?? In your RX, are you using products proven by others or have you customized everything from scratch?
Hehe...Abel's #'s on the 2 rotor were 968(I believe) and yes the 940rwh is better known with the stock FD intake (extrude-honed).
Secretive...YES, I agree.
but when the numbers show up on the boards at public events they are very real.

JD

Ofcourse money is important no doubt about it. But when there isnt anyone able or if you dont know anyone who has done it who are you going to pay...get what im trying to say...

By copy I mean coping other peoples setups that have already been proven, not products. Obviously your not going to make ur own turbo or wastegate from scratch.

And NO I didnt just buy a Greddy turbo kit t78/t88 LOL... all I bought was a gt35 turbo and pieced all the parts together.

everything was pretty much "custom" for my car all I bought was all the parts I wanted..

My brother did ALL the fab work..he makes custom manifolds for a living. i bought a core he made me an intercooler, all the piping, complete fuel sys from scratch not a kit. and I am probably one of the first FD's to use the ECU I have in the states. didnt jump on the pwr FC, haltech, Wolfcrap, tec 3 bandwagon. Nothing was "copied". plus I have a "big street port" that was flow benched,, how much more CFM increase does your port make DO YOU EVEN KNOW? ..did u use a template? I didnt.. BUT I really dont understand the point you are trying to make... this isnt about my car or yours... if you were trying to point out that I copied my setup or car your completely wrong John..

No I don't.....regardless, doing the R&D yourself or paying someone else to do it takes $$$$$$$$$$......enough said.

Nothing wrong with using proven setups.....enjoy it and improve it from there if possible.
My opinion, that Greddy T78/T88 kit will outperform your GT35 turbo in overall hp with ease. But as long as your satisfied is what matters.

FLOWBENCHED !!! now I heard it all....
now it explains why you guys feel strongly devoted to the P-Ports.
Flowbenching rotary ports is simply another debate which I don't care for!

Are you simply measuring static flow rates thru the ports ??
How are you generating the turbulence of intake flow as it enters the chambers ??
No template !!! how can you guarantee identical ports as far as shape and timing for port opening and closing ??? you gain more here then on your 2-3hp gain from flowbench #'s
Yes, I use a template and so does everyone else unless they're using a CNC machine.

When a forum member looks to purchase a new intercooler, turbo or an exhaust system they usually do a bit of research to get feedback from its performance and quality...this has nothing to do with copying....
I guess you missed my point completely! and I don't know your car so I cannot comment on it.

JD

Great thread

Did you saw the date? :icon16:

20B's where still running in the 7's.

On any case:
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2001...sults/pro.html


How about them 168MPH?

I just went on NHRA's website and checked the legal weight limits for a 2 rotor car in PRO RWD class, it's 2000lbs. Given that, Rafaelito's 168MPH pass at 2000lbs = 731HP. If that's what you call impressive from a "supposed" superior port than a street ported motor, I don't think so. Abel was already hit 176 mph at that time with a 2 rotor street port, which coincidentally would equal 840HP . Please don't insult my intelligence by stating mph without knowing all the facts involved, like I said MPH DOES NOT LIE! So far no one has proven that a BP, or PP motor with forced induction can make more HP than a SP, but still others insist on argueing.

I am not trying to insult your intelligence, however you stated that they run under weight cars, and that the power was not there. You were basing your facts on MPH, and you got them!

You are also forgeting the fact that he was running a CARB setup, how about from a 7.6 to a 7.4 @ 184MPH when he switched to EFI? Could it be possible to make more power on a EFI setup vs the same setup on carbs? Hmmm...

On any case, I am not arguing which port makes more power, IMO BP & PP does; but is just a speculation, since I don't know jack about it. What I do klnow is that you were wrong on the following statement:

This thread was worthless a long time ago it should just get closed again because you guys already know everything so there's no need for anymore discussion.

Enzo, even though I agree with you (which means nothing, cause I don't know anything); you seem to be very defensive. All we have is people posting "stuff", and no proof; I guess that is what everybody wants to see, proof :)

Knonfs,

Problem is no one is going to post anything, including myself. It doesn't work that way.
I know what we made with a pp motor and i know what there capable of. I don't need to post anything on here to prove anything. People who know me know, and that's all that matters to me honestly. I don't care what stuff people post here or what they read and think is true.

BTW Knonfs i wasn't directing that comment at you...

Enzo I know what you mean, I know (because I've seen) PR racers using semi pports engine; I know they work, but as you said nobody will post anything and I don't blame them (you included) for doing so.

I know your comment was not directed at me :jump:

YES IT IS.......and getting interesting as we keep going.

and maybe educational for some people who arent opened minded enough to realize there are always better ways to do things.

Worthless to you since you're having a difficult time to justify what you stand for!!!
Again, you seem to be the one acting like the expert.....and yet where's your explanation or dyno sheets that support your opinion. I guess its also "top-secret" and not material for this forum.
Learn to keep an open mind and not just say its better bacause its bigger.

JD

EXACTLY !!!

Why has the PR racers gone from full P-ports to semi P-ports(smaller) and few back to bridge-port ? -reliability??...-tunning dificulties??
and they seem to be making more power now then with the P-Ports.
What's the big deal for posting anyone's success with a turbo PP motor???
Too much competition among themselves !!!

Hahaha...could have not said it better myself !!!

JD

Just curious and i dont think it has been brought up. But what about Racing Beat and their turbo PP's. Thats what they used on their salt flats cars and also they have the 13g engine thats turbo PP that makes over 900 crank and looks to be pretty "reliable". Whats the story with those?

CJG

Only 900 on a 3 rotor?
I'd call that a disappointment nowadays.


-Ted

Yaya, not the huge number, but i think thats pretty good for something that can actually make the power for more than 7-8 seconds at a time. A salt flats car will run close to a 1000hp for a much longer duration than a drag car. I was just curiouse what the take on their development was.

CJG

A couple of reasons:

-They don't speak english
-They don't have PC (or are interested in surfing the net)


There is your 90% of them, now if you get to talk to them; most of them will debate with you on which one they prefer.

I have never seen a full PP + Turbo in PR, except for la Fabiola; the others run either a semi PP, or a side port engine (BP?)