Looking at borg warner s366, recomendations?
 

I recently got an aspec t4 short runner manifol/dp with HPC hypercoat and now im looking into turbos...

im looking to get 450-500hp at high boost (18-20psi) without too much lag... i would like my low boost to be anywhere in the 300... i would rather compromise peak HP for response. the car is also pretty much daily driven, and would rarely see 450+hp... but i want to know the turbo i buy is capable of doing so and not be a restricting factor if i decide to go that high.. ive been reading up about the s366 and was wondering would the s366 be the right choice for me?

this is the one im looking at
http://www.diesel-plus.com/dd_turbo.cfm?npid=9784
only thing is i believe the .91 is a little on the big side and i should go with something in the .8x range?


some of my supporting mods are...
hbp
550/1600
fpr
aem water/meth running winshield fluid
denso fp
koyo rad
greddy fmic
apexi pfc

any help or suggestions would be great
thanks!

You could even go with a smaller 62/63mm compressor. The divided .91 isnt too big, I would use that or the 1.00 housing. The .88 housing is undivided and wont spool as quick.

I forgot to ask, are you still running the stock port?

the s366 is a mismatch for your needs. it makes 78 pounds per minute which is 588 rwRhp.
the compressor wheel is 7.743 av square inches.

a turbo that would work really well for you is the BW turbo that is similar to the TEC300/R85.

the compressor area is 6.667 and it flows 63 pounds per minute and makes 490+. more importantly, in line with your objectives, it will make 400 rwhp (SAE) at 5500. a street rocket.

here's a dyno sheet at 20 psi:

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6...e5500490to.png

i believe the comp is 61.5 X 84.7 and the turbine is 70.8 X 79.8

it is an inexpensive BW journal bearing turbo... 'don't think it is extended tip but if you look at the dyno sheet it rips.

BTW, you are pretty close on fuel... you need 4650 and you have 4300.... probably o k.

..................gasoline............Energy...... ...Cooling................Addit'l Cooling BTUs
rwRhp........CC/min...............BTUs.............BTUs........... ............from water AI

217 (stock)....2018...............61,899............50 8................................640........ 300 CC/Min

300...............2790...............85,578....... .....702................................854....... ..400 CC/Min

400...............3720..............114,105....... ....936................................854........ ..400 CC/Min

500...............4650..............142,018....... ...1165..............................1068......... .500 CC/Min

600...............5580..............171,158....... ...1404..............................1495......... 700 CC/Min

fuel requirements assume we can deliver at a 10.0 AFR at 85% max duty cycle.

column 2 is required injector capacity at the stated hp level.

column 3 is the total BTUs of energy required to make the stated rotary hp level.

column 4 is the inherent cooling ability in negative BTUs from the gasoline.

column 4 is the additional cooling from the introduction of water.

column 5 is the amount of water.

note that the water adds approximately 100% additional cooling. this is not small potatoes. remember, we are easily running 10% more gasoline in an effort to cool our motors courtesy of Mazda.

at the 400 hp level 10% of the gasoline cooling BTUs is 94.

the introduction of 400 CC/Min of water adds 854 cooling BTUs!

win win win.

lose the gasoline and it's carbon

cool the CCP by an additional 9X

steam clean the carboned up motor.


howard coleman

no sir! im half bridge port!

howard is this the turbo youre talking about?
http://www.diesel-plus.com/dd_turbo.cfm?npid=7257

Oooh, gotcha. I would use the 62mm compressor with the 79mm turbine wheel. The standard S366 isnt necessary, so the smaller compressor would spool quicker. You might be able to get away with an S366, but the 1.10 turbine would be necessary.

hmm most of the BW are looking to be over 1g... now im wondering if i should just get the gt3574 from aspec... which is around 700? i really would like to stay under 1000$

The 3574 is really that low? I thought they wanted like $1k for the journal bearing. I would personally go with the BW, good performance for the money.

howard nice write up. how does the lead and split timing look from 6-8k on that 490 whp dyno sheet you have?

S361 is the turbo used for the dyno run above...

here's a vendor from google... http://www.diesel-plus.com/turbo_sea...ner%20Airwerks

el cheapo.

61 X 84.7 cold

70.8 X 79.8 hot

hot is 4% larger than hot which is a + for the rotary.

hc

sorry i lied it is 900 lol..

yeah thats the vendor ive been looking at but the only thing is their specs read
Wheel Dimensions: Compressor: 61.5mm inducer,87.4mm exducer
Turbine: 79.9 mm inducer, 70.8mm exducer.
Turbine : 1.51, with 'T04' type turbine inlet flange, and quick-release v-band discharge

while yours reads
61 X 84.7 cold

70.8 X 79.8 hot

what would be the difference with the larger exducer of 87.4 instead of 84.7?
and the one listed has similar numbers to your hotside but reversed... or am i just reading it incorrectly?:scratch:

i run the s-361 with 1.15 ar on a streetport and it spools plenty fast and @20psi on meth/93 it put down 485whp
With a 1/2 bridge it would easily hit 500.

I have the sc361 as well but i have a .81 t4 hotside with a extened tip. I put down 467 @17psi with the mid muffler and with mid pipe like 475rwhp @17psi. Im on a street port and this is on 93 and 50/50 aux injection and safe 11.3 afrs even dipps below when around 7k. Going for over 500rwhp on race gas and spools pretty quick. Trying for low 10's :) i still have a/c and all.

whered you guys buy yours and how much did u pay?

from the link i posted.. is the 1.51 the AR?

Ray at PFS did my setup, also running a short runner manifold.

"Wheel Dimensions: Compressor: 61.5mm inducer,87.4mm exducer"

i believe their number is a typo/probably got reversed. i am fairly certain my number is correct but you could always check.

it is a really nice kickass turbo for the $

hc

I should probably mention, thats an old compressor they are using. Thats only 62lb/min, where their newer 60mm is 70lb/min. :icon_tup:

any recomendations for something under 1k? im kinda leaning towards the aspec 3574 because i dont wanna have fitment issues... anyone running a bw on aspecs short runner?

what about this one?
http://www.diesel-plus.com/dd_turbo.cfm?npid=9781
Wheel Dimensions: Compressor: 60.0 mm inducer, 83.5 mm exducer,
with exclusive Extended Tip Technology.
Turbine: 76.2 mm inducer, 67.5 mm exducer. C
Housing A/R: Compressor: .55, with 4.0" hose-type inlet, and 3.0" hose-type discharge. Turbine: .91, with 'T4-style', divided entry, and 4.21" v-band discharge.

or this one?
http://www.diesel-plus.com/dd_turbo.cfm?npid=7248
Wheel Dimensions:
Compressor: 66.1mm inducer, 91.4mm exducer, with exclusive Extended Tip Technology.
Turbine: 79.8mm inducer, 73.4mm exducer
Housing A/R:
Compressor: .55, with 4.0" hose-type inlet, and 3.0" hose-type discharge
Turbine: .88, with 'open' volute, featuring a 'T04-style' turbine inlet flange
also whats the difference between the old version and new version?

buuuuuump

i installed that s366 on one of my customer's car at 12psi it made 358hp car is a daily driver, me personally think it would be a good choice....also the car is half bridge.

exact same trim as i posted? and the customers car is hbp as well? interestinggggg! what kind of manifold? any water meth? got any dyno graphs of that? thanks!

half bridge with meth injection, custom made exhaust manifold.

so im prettty much leaning towads the s366 despite what either of my mechanic says =/
one prefers the A/R closer to .8 the other prefers it atleast 1.00 so i assume the .88 is a nice middle ground and shouldnt cause too much lag?

also at what point should we upgrade out exhausts? i have 3" all the way back but since im getting a custom dp i thought now would be a good time to go 4" all the way back?

The .88 is the smallest you should use. If you have a divided manifold, get the .91 or 1.00 housing. For 500wheel hp, I would use the 1.00 myself.

from what i understand the small a/r the less lag, the less i make up top... am i correct? what else would it effect if i get a .88 ar?

will the s366 beat a 35r? or will it play catch up?

i rather compromise the loss of peak hp vs low end power..

thanks again for all your guys help!

The .88 is undivided. If you have a divided manifold, it will outperform an undivided if the housings are of similar size, especially on a rotary. The 366 should be a bit behind, but not by much.

bit behind in the beginning or overall?

Sorry, it was a reference to spool.

I would stick with a smaller compressor if you want response over peak. These are pretty fast spooling turbos for being non ball bearing.

Here is a thread from 4 years ago of my car with the Borg Warner 1.15 a/r with a 61.5mm compressor wheel at 25 lbs it made 544 whp with full 25 lbs spool at around 4400 rpms non ball bearing looking at the graph in the thread...

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/pfsupercars-built-tuned-makes-544-whp-537008/

at 27 lbs it maxed out at 561 whp. At 20 lbs it made 500whp with full spool around 4250 rpms. At 16.8 lbs it made 427 and full boost was 4K. here is the graphs...

I had a 1.15 A/R, gets the heat out which is key to the survival along with proper fuel and tuning. I ended up going with the S366 and with a normal run of the mill street port and OEM 2mm seals, made 610 whp. Here is that graph...

Good luck.

what is your AR on that one? what psi are those graphs @?

1.15 a/r
544=25 psi
427=16.8 psi
610=28 psi
561=27 psi

am i correct when i say bigger A/R = higher peak hp at lower boost?but more lag?

how do you think the .91 A/r t4 divided will do on a hbp?

The higher peak is more correct, however the compressor wheel more determines the higher hp at lower boost. The bigger the A/R the more lag, but more flow for top end power band essentially shifting it to the right. However the rotary engine exhaust pulses utilize a bigger A/R more efficiently and beneficial for getting the back pressure and heat out and it isnt affected as much as say a small 4 cylinder engine

I would use the R85 turbo for your street application...but there are many turbo's out there that will do what you are wanting to do. I just chimed in because you were asking about the BW turbo that I had. I did notice it spooled a bit later than my R85 BW setup, but it netted better top end. Good luck

^^ im getting kinda confussed... you mentioned "idid notice it spooled a bit later than my r85 bw set up" i though the r85 was kgparts turbo.. not bw?

A R85 turbo is a borq warner turbo, essentially a off the shelf truck turbo which you can get from bullseye power turbochargers and the only thing you have to change is the flange on the turbine housing as the V-band section is too thick from the factory (at least if you use the 1.15 A/R). R85 is the just the name they chose to use to market the turbo and changed the v band flange.
I originally had a R85 (BORG WARNER) which is a 61.5 mm compressor with a 1.15 a/r. I wanted more power, so I upgraded to a bullseye power turbo...which is a S366. The turbos (r85 and s366) are off the shelf turbos. I believe the R85 is called a S361 or S362 or something like that from bullseye. I had to ask them to use the 1.15 A/R turbine housing on my S366, which they had on the shelf because all of these turbo's do not use the 1.15 a/r.

The reason the S366 had slower spool was because the compressor wheel was 5.5 mm bigger than my R85, but everything else was identical (turbine wheel size and A/R and front cover.)

Again, I would recommmend you go with the smaller compressor wheel (61.5-62mm)with the extended tip vs the S366(66mm) for spool response and a larger A/R. 400 whp is plenty enough for the street use and since you are going half bridge, you will be making more power at lower boost vs street port. I was only on a simple street port and made 561@27 lbs maxed out on the R85 (61.5mm). If you are a good driver....350whp will net mid to high 11's in the quarter.

If you looked at all my graphs...the only S366 I have is the one with 610 whp...all others were on the R85

well my reasoning for going "wanting" to go with the s366 was beacuse i didnt want to run insane boost.. your 561@ 27 is nice, but there is noooo way i wanna run more then 20psi, i would like to make 450-500 at 18psi, if it cant be done, then it cant be done...

i dont mind lag i just dont want to be sitting all day and then catch it... thats why im opting for the .91 A/R.. well atleast thats my logic and sense... does my reasoning make sense?

let me put it this way...my R85 made around 500 whp at 20 lbs of boost on a street port. Your HBP will make that power before with better response with the smaller compressor wheel like the R85 and still make the numbers you want without the extra lag. Honestly, you dont need 500 whp for the street, you are going to have a hard time hooking up on street tires. You said you want to sacrafice peak hp for response in your OP. I think you will like the spool characteristics of the 61-62mm wheel.
Dont get caught up in the numbers game, as there are many more factors that come into play. I have given you my experience and advice, but you are going to do what you want. Good luck on whatever turbo you go with.