HKS T51R Kai
 

Hi Everyone,

I am upgrading my setup, basically I am installing a new 13B-REW engine that can hold up to 500whp, and was thinking of purchasing an HKS T51R Kai. Is anyone using this turbo on here?
This is the spec of this turbo I found:

Compressor:
Exd/Ind: 94.0mm/70.3mm
Trim: 56
Turbine Housing:
Major/Exducer: 82mm/71.4mm
Trim: 76
Turbine A/R:1.00

Also, how much boost does it need to push to generate around 450whp? Some people have told me the turbo might be too big, other said it is good..so I'm asking for everyone's opinion especially those who had experience with this turbo before.
What size injectors would I need? I have bought a set of Sard fuel rails, now the largest injectors by Sard (high impedance) are 850cc. Will they be enough for 450whp, if say the turbo would have to be boosting 20psi? I might sell them if I need to get bigger injectors.
My car has an Apex'i Power FC with Commander too, and will be tuned on a dyno.

Any advice is welcome, thanks in advance:)

Will be moved to single turbo section. I am sure you can "search" there and find info on the turbo.

this kit is discontinued from hks. im peicing a kit together right now, prepare to shell out the money

The Gt4294R is very similar to the HKST51R turbo. Take a look at the specs.
T51= Inducer 70.3mm Exducer 94mm and on the turbine side Exducer71.4mm and 82mm Major

GT4294= Inducer 70.3mm Exducer 94mm and on the turbine side exducer 75.2mm and 82mm Major.

So you can see they are very close but the gt42 has a bigger turbine and more rear housing options and it is also divided as opposed to single entry. You can make the power you are looking for around 1.2 bar with this turbo.

that turbo is overkill for 500whp. go with something smaller that will have better response. with proper tuning you can make that power on a S362(GT35R) around 18-22 psi depending on porting.

...besides the turbo (as posted before, there are some smaller turbos on the market that can also reach 500hp but are not that laggy like the T51R/GT42), but the more important fact is that the injectors are way too small. 4x850cc are good for around 430 hp with 100% duty cycle, and 1000cc are the biggest injectors the sard fuel rail should accept - i have only read this, but never find evidence to this (an explanation would be fine, if anybody knows...)

...so, perhaps you should buy another fuel rail, and use bosch 1680 on the secondary...

They are very laggy. I haven't come across one on a rotary but they are very popular with Skyline GTRs owners who convert the RB26DETT to run a single T51R. Makes no power below 5k but rips your face off once you go past 6500.

If you just want to make 500rwhp it's overkill, use something smaller.

HERE IS LINK TO SOMEONE WHO HAS THE SAME TURBO ON THEIR CAR. This guy is more than happy with the turbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvRVG...eature=related

Thought you were gonna post this vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I594H...ext=1&index=14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5YLbvQlSF4

To give you an idea what a rotary on a T51R KAI BB feels/sounds like.

I filmed that video about 6 months back, but i still remember it very vividly. It's not that laggy as it's made to seen.

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...3/IMG_0186.jpg

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...3/IMG_0187.jpg

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...3/IMG_0185.jpg

You can also look into triple ball bearing COMP/Bullseye-Power Turbos if you want a single with awesome response.

I agree that the Comp turbos are nice.

do all the big turbos make that much noise? or is it only certain ones?

T51R KAI BBs and T51R SPL turbos have a very unique, high pitched note.

Yeah the T51 has a very unique sound! But some of the anti surge (or BW race) cover's generate a similar noise, but the HKS one is higher pitched and unique for sure.

is it the BB in the turbo that causes that high pitched turbo diesel truck sound?

posted earlier

so its the shroud that does that? ive seen the smooth ones and theres ones with holes all around it, whats the difference? sorry for so many questions but i learn something new from you guys everyday :)

Anti-surge, typically when a smaller motor runs a larger turbo, the motor can't ingest the air quickly enough, and the air 'backs up' up the compressor wheel, hence the surge.

Anti-surge housings sound cool, but aren't needed for your typical rotary street application. You'll lose a little bit of response, which is why I'm not running one. Although the noise does sound pretty cool :D

i just created an account here as i was lurking via google.

just wanna say the t51r ball bearing turbos are not discontinued.
i have a t51r kai on my supra and hks told me over the phone that the ball bearing versions are not discontinued.

as for the kit itself, maybe :)


i can only describe the sound as a dentist drill and it makes your pants wet on both front and back when you hear it spooling.
noise in my opinion is attributed to the specially designed anti surge housing AND the fact that the housing is made of lightweight inconel (my grandma can do bicep curls with the turbo)

Honestly even though you can make alot more power on a gt42r than you can with a t51r (yes a gt4202r is bigger) I will forever love the sound that t51r makes. Just cant afford the 5K for a turbo kit

Good luck on your build, ill keep an eye for it

BTW that blue car on youtube is my car ITS A GT42 BUT THE REASON why it spools up so quickly is because of the 4 barrell intake i have on top


P.S. with a street port i hit 430@ 12lbs on a t78 so a t51 should be around 450 @ 12lbs

im not sure if this information is helpful for rx7's but on 2jz 3 litre engine the t51r kai will make 600whp at around 20 psi and with 264 cams it can do mid to high 600 whp with 600wtq at low 20's psi

spools your head into the seat at just over 5k rpm on the 3 litre.

heres some examples. i apologize if this is way unreletive to rotory

(ah wtf i cant link images, throw these in your browser i guess. its not spam :))
20 psi with boost leaking
dynamotorsports.ca/dynographs2/DMTSupraT51RMAFDyno.jpg

21 psi with more mods
dynamotorsports.ca/tempfiles/DMTSupraAEMT51RKAI.jpg
dynamotorsports.ca/tempfiles/DMTSupraAEMT51RKAIBoost.jpg

in my opinion this turbo will be huge and a waste for 500whp. but it sure wont break a sweat to make that power. (on a 2jz anyway. im gonna leave now this rotary stuff is way over my head)
HKS underrated it at 800hp, 80 lbs/min
ive never seen a compressor map for it though and im pretty sure they were never released.

i also believe the garrett equivalent to the KAI is the gt4294r, and the equivalent to the SPL is the gt4202r.
they are very similar and are known to hit more top end, but they lack the HKS secret sauce

get a gtx4294r imo :D

take care,

I have thought this turbo over ever since i got my RX7 and i'm 99% sure that's what i'm going to upgrade too. I'm sure i'll never use that turbo to it's fullest but 420 at 12lbs is good for me as long as i get that sound. it's only money, can't take it with you. might as will throw it away on some BIG dumbass turbo.... thats what i'm going to do. :lol:

I recommend this turbo :)
I hit 14psi at approx 4k rpm, more to do with my porting the early spool, power figures in my sig :D

The standard GT42R turbos are a better choice with the divided housings. Too bad the HKS turbos are slow spooling and wont make as much power, the sound is simply amazing!

LOL Wont make much power hahaha, I dont know what makes you think that, I make a lot of power on low boost (Dyna Dynamics Dyno) so you regard me making a full 1 BAR\14psi of boost as slow spooling :lol: ok what ever you say.
I have friend who has more or less the same setup as me with a GT42, I outspool him by a couple of hundred RPM, and we make very similar power.
I agree HKS turbos are more expensive and may not be worth the extra money for the earlier spool , but they are in no way no less performant in top end power to a GT42.

You may be a seller of turbos, but you cant make sweeping statements like that, unless you have owned/built high powered rotaries and have run both types of turbos.
People like to see evidendence on real world experiance and results, not theory

In regards to housings, why have TIAL made a rear housing to replace the divided housings on GT42 which is using the same design as the HKS T62/T51Turbos? I guess TIAL and HKS dont know what they are doing :scratch:

:wink:

the gt4294r does make more top end power at max boost than t51r kai,

however hks did not take the 4294 and make it worse through R&D... that is to say i sure hope they didnt??

i havent tried a 4294 but ive heard the hks builds boost faster and stays in boost longer between gear changes.
a quality i am definitely down with on a 6 speed supra.

its also typicaly regarded as a very responsive turbo once your in boost and aswell the power curve is quite linear so that the power comes on stealthly which can be misleading and it also saves you money on tire shredding torque curves

i would be in heaven if i could get a divided back housing for the t51r and throw a sound performance quickspool valve on it :egrin:

Or you could be cool and get a rotary to make real use of the divided entry! :nod:

From what I've heard, the TiAl/HKS style single entry flows "better" than standard single or divided entry manifolds, but it just doesn't make use of the strong exhaust pulse of a 2-rotor. Take it FWIW though, since nobody's shown any real evidence that either is better for spool or top end on any engine.

I LOVE THE power the gt42 makes. However the sound of the hkst51 has no comparison to the gt42

thats my opinion after owning both turbos

which model of the two did you have and also which one made the most power?
#
cheers
Erdin

Not to be a ball buster as I don't like calling out people the way you just did above, but you do realize the V-banded housings are copies from Garrett's racing programs right? They copied Garrett, not the other way around ;)


The only reason the 51R sounds the way it does is the surge cover, put the same style surge cover on the 42R and you'll have the same sound.


~S~

i am scratching my head on this thread...

"to generate around 450whp?" OP

i think it would be good if the OPer clearly stated his objectives HPwise... if i read his statement (above) all of this HKS/GT42 stuff is totally inappropriate.

if you are looking to make 450 the thread should be comparing the GT3582r, GT3574, Borg Warner R85, S300-61, Tech 300.

OP, what are you after? unless you are after 600+ hp the T51/GT42 isn't for you.

howard

HKS T51 SPL 474hp @ 18lbs (tunning on 93 with the ignition system from rx7.com)
GT4202R 534hp @ 20lbs (no tunning just 1 dyno run on E85 ignition system from microtech)


HKS spooled @ 4700 with full boost @ 5200
GT4202R spooled @ 3700rpm with full boost @ 4200rpm (thats with a 4 inch downpipe fitted to a 3in exhaust).

dont forget the intake i have on the gt42 so that might make a difference


both on street ports.



p.s. the gt42 has a 1.28 rear housing