Hard start issue
Hello, I have recently rebuilt my 13b and converted to a single turbonetics turbo. Also took off all the emissions related things. Car has a apexi power fc and data log it. Factory injectors and bridge ported.
on to the starting issue. It is very hard to start. If you give the car full throttle and let off it tries to fire and spins faster, every once in a while it will catch and run. If I didn' explain anything properly, let me know, I have been fighting this for 2 months and I'm out of ideas. |
When rotaries are rebuilt, the first 300 km or so, the compression is low, after 3-500 break in km the engine should be easier to start, as compression gets better.
i use a bit of 2 stroke oil in the uim to help with compression, when starting fresh engines. |
Originally Posted by Auning
(Post 12241332)
When rotaries are rebuilt, the first 300 km or so, the compression is low, after 3-500 break in km the engine should be easier to start, as compression gets better.
i use a bit of 2 stroke oil in the uim to help with compression, when starting fresh engines. |
Why are you giving it full throttle when starting and then letting off? If that is what you are doing, then it is wrong. Full throttle while cranking cuts off the injectors.
A new engine is tight. Only thing is to set the idle speeds higher than normal due to the large ports. Attached the map in zipped format with list of all non stock mods. This should be on the PFC forum. |
Originally Posted by cewrx7r1
(Post 12241553)
Why are you giving it full throttle when starting and then letting off? If that is what you are doing, then it is wrong. Full throttle while cranking cuts off the injectors.
A new engine is tight. Only thing is to set the idle speeds higher than normal due to the large ports. Attached the map in zipped format with list of all non stock mods. This should be on the PFC forum. |
On the rew there are 2 conections for vacume lines were the uim mates to the lim. Its on the uim.
i use a funnel and å vacume hose to get a bit of oil in to each rotor, then i crank it. |
You shouldn't have to do that if the motor was built right and the starting enrichments on the tune are set correctly. Using oil is just covering up an issue.
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Do you have a video? Alot of times the oem wiring/fuse box sucks and drops voltage to starter. I've had difficulty starting new engines in past until replacing battery wiring directly to starter for maximum amperage, least amount of voltage drop. Is your battery relocated? Can you see cranking rpm somehow ?
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It also helps to fire the engine off on starter fluid. Spray a few shots into intake elbow, with injector relay/fuel pump disabled, only ignition/coils on. This gets it coughing easily without flooding
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Originally Posted by Monsterbox
(Post 12241635)
It also helps to fire the engine off on starter fluid. Spray a few shots into intake elbow, with injector relay/fuel pump disabled, only ignition/coils on. This gets it coughing easily without flooding
Does anyone have the information from their Power FC tune for a bridgeport, with a 67mm single turbo and stock injectors, just something to get me started with the apexi unit. I'e tried re initializing the unit but had the same issue, no start/ flooded, |
Originally Posted by Jeremyv2892
(Post 12241683)
Update, finally got it fired up, had to perform a deflood procedure and put the factory ecu back in,
Does anyone have the information from their Power FC tune for a bridgeport, with a 67mm single turbo and stock injectors, just something to get me started with the apexi unit. I'e tried re initializing the unit but had the same issue, no start/ flooded, What part of alabama are you in? You could just start by pulling fuel out of the map at idle cells, make a big correction like -25%, try to crank it up, see if it stays running, if it fires up, see if it sputtters out and stalls from going lean, then add back in a little more until it stays alive. If floods again, repeat with even less fuel, no? |
Originally Posted by Monsterbox
(Post 12241635)
It also helps to fire the engine off on starter fluid. Spray a few shots into intake elbow, with injector relay/fuel pump disabled, only ignition/coils on. This gets it coughing easily without flooding
Originally Posted by Monsterbox
(Post 12241710)
What part of alabama are you in?
You could just start by pulling fuel out of the map at idle cells, make a big correction like -25%, try to crank it up, see if it stays running, if it fires up, see if it sputtters out and stalls from going lean, then add back in a little more until it stays alive. If floods again, repeat with even less fuel, no? I live in guin alabama. |
Ok I have it where it will start every time from a cold start, but when the Pfc indicates anything over 20c, you can forget about it ever starting. If you let the temp drop back down it will crank easily. I would be in good shape if it wasn't for this issue.anyone have an idea?
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Originally Posted by Jeremyv2892
(Post 12242876)
Ok I have it where it will start every time from a cold start, but when the Pfc indicates anything over 20c, you can forget about it ever starting. If you let the temp drop back down it will crank easily. I would be in good shape if it wasn't for this issue.anyone have an idea?
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Just spit-balling here since your original synopsis doesn't necessarily point to this....But try jumping the two biggest wires of the H302 security relay. Will be very simple to eliminate this common electrical gremlin from your issues. #frustrating
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Originally Posted by Topolino
(Post 12243034)
Just spit-balling here since your original synopsis doesn't necessarily point to this....But try jumping the two biggest wires of the H302 security relay. Will be very simple to eliminate this common electrical gremlin from your issues. #frustrating
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what do the lower plugs look like after trying to restart?
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Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR
(Post 12243096)
what do the lower plugs look like after trying to restart?
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Check compression and for vacuum leaks.
are you logging afrs when it's idling? |
Originally Posted by Fuhnortoner
(Post 12243157)
Check compression and for vacuum leaks.
are you logging afrs when it's idling? |
Originally Posted by Jeremyv2892
(Post 12243171)
yes I have an innovative wideband hooked into the datalogit. And what should be my expected compression numbers? I checked all my vacuum lines and they are good,
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Originally Posted by Fuhnortoner
(Post 12243175)
So what are your afrs at idle?
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A bridge port pulls significantly less vacuum and will therefore put you in a different part of the map during cranking and idle. In most cases you will have to pull fuel out. If you didn't adjust the tune for the port there is a good chance that is why it is so difficult to start. Deletion of the airpump and some other emissions equipment will also affect the tune and need to be compensated for. Finally, with the stock injectors you will run out of fuel very quickly (probably by 7 or 8 lbs with the porting and single turbo). Unless you are just using the stock fuel system for now to start the car, I would strongly recommend upgrading.
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Originally Posted by IRPerformance
(Post 12243285)
A bridge port pulls significantly less vacuum and will therefore put you in a different part of the map during cranking and idle. In most cases you will have to pull fuel out. If you didn't adjust the tune for the port there is a good chance that is why it is so difficult to start. Deletion of the airpump and some other emissions equipment will also affect the tune and need to be compensated for. Finally, with the stock injectors you will run out of fuel very quickly (probably by 7 or 8 lbs with the porting and single turbo). Unless you are just using the stock fuel system for now to start the car, I would strongly recommend upgrading.
what part of the map would I be in, which cells. and I really appreciate your help so far. |
Not familiar with PFC, but its either the map under the tabs "Inj Map" or "Base Map". It looks like the column is absolute pressure and the row is RPM. Find out which map it is before you start messing with stuff. I dont want to be responsible for your blown engine.
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