Fueling for A-spec 3574R
Hi guys,
So my A-Spec 3574R for my FD should be shipping soon. I need to know if I use 850cc primaries and 850cc secondaries with this kit whats the max safe boost I can run. I will be running a walbro 255lph fuel pump. Do I need an aftermarket FPR too? Thanks guys... |
That should get you about 12-13 psi safely but each car is different. That turbo is capable of 20 psi+ and runing that low boost with it is a waste in my opinion. We had one on a car with a 550/1300 combo and it was running out of fuel by 15 psi. Get rid of the walbro. Put in a supra tt or bosch 044 pump and get some 1600s at minimum.
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I'll second what Ihor said. You're wasting the turbo with 850 secondaries. You might as well go ahead and upgrade your system.
I was using 850's for my primary/secondary when I had twins. Even then I was running out of fuel at around 380whp, you can EASILY hit 380 with that turbo off relatively low boost. |
Definitely get rid of the walbro and look at a Supra pump or the RP upgraded Supra pump:
(8th picture down) http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fdfuel.html |
I have a new rp pump if you decide to go that route. Im am gonna need to go bigger than planned. G
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^What's the plan G? Your setup definitely can benefit from a beefier fuel pump ;)
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driving around with a walbro on a turbo rotary is like working under a car on a jack with not jack stands...good luck
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Originally Posted by wyerrick
(Post 10877554)
driving around with a walbro on a turbo rotary is like working under a car on a jack with not jack stands...good luck
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i know there are plenty of people driving with no issues. BUT ive personally seen 2 walbros fail on 2 seperate cars on the dyno resulting in engine failures. Why not just spend $50-100 more and get one the above mentioned pumps to save yourself some headache? the saying exists for a reason...you get what you pay for
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hmmm... i know this but the new walbro 400 is supposed to be pretty impressive...
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Thanks guys for all the input. Now let me change the question a bit. Ideally what fueling options would you guys suggest I take to have a good idle and capable of around 450whp.
Do I need a fpr What size primaries and secondaries Which fuel pump Do I need new fuel rails I am going to ditch the walbro and am leaning towards the bosch. Thanks guys |
Bosch 044 with stock lines and primaries is fine. Top feed secondary rail, aeromotive a1000-6 regulator and ID2000 secondaries...
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Originally Posted by Turblown
(Post 10882653)
Bosch 044 with stock lines and primaries is fine. Top feed secondary rail, aeromotive a1000-6 regulator and ID2000 secondaries...
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Bosch 044.
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Originally Posted by Bathurst
(Post 10881988)
Thanks guys for all the input. Now let me change the question a bit. Ideally what fueling options would you guys suggest I take to have a good idle and capable of around 450whp.
Do I need a fpr What size primaries and secondaries Which fuel pump Do I need new fuel rails I am going to ditch the walbro and am leaning towards the bosch. Thanks guys http://www.rx7store.net/category_s/93.htm The Extreme system we sell is popular and will support the HP numbers. As far as pump you have a few options. The Walbro 400, Aeromotive, Bosch 044, Supra pumps will all do the job. |
Guys what are your thoughts on the aeromotive 340lph also how does it compare to nippondenso supra upgrade......
Thanks |
Originally Posted by Jason
(Post 10884353)
Bosch 044.
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Originally Posted by zaridar
(Post 10885319)
that good for 500 possibly 500+ rwhp?
4000cc per minute pumping into a 4.5 bar head. To interpret this information, understand that 3bar / 43.5psi above pressure at sea level is the maximum base fuel pressure typically used with aftermarket adjustable fuel rails. Some RX-7s may use lower from the factory such as 36psi or so. Anyway 4.5bar. 3.0 bar will be used by your fuel pressure. Leaving you another 1.5bar for the 1:1 fuel pressure regulator to use to match the intake boost change, and keep 3bar/43.5psi across the injector. This means you can use 1.5bar/21.75psi boost using a 3bar/43.5psi base, and flow 4000cc/min in that operating condition. It all depends what you can do with ~3.2kg/minute of fuel flow. |
i have 3/8 lines and planning on -8 which is 1/2" also have an aeromotive rising rate FPR 13301 and will be using a 4bbl TB setup with 4 injectors...
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Originally Posted by Bathurst
(Post 10881988)
Thanks guys for all the input. Now let me change the question a bit. Ideally what fueling options would you guys suggest I take to have a good idle and capable of around 450whp.
Do I need a fpr What size primaries and secondaries Which fuel pump Do I need new fuel rails I am going to ditch the walbro and am leaning towards the bosch. Thanks guys So Basiclly I have a fuel pump and injectors and THATS IT! I actully bought the injector 2nd hand too. This car has had the same turbo and injector combo since 2005 and has nearly 50,000 miles on it. I have had 0 pump and injector failures. This combo can work and run just fine for very cheap.So people claiming it won't work messed up sumwhere. Maybe not 450 but damn close. Its more than enough power to make you smile. If you go to Rotary performances hp calculator 550/1300 at 100% can make 570fwhp. O and don't push stock apexseals hard, they won't last long...aftermarket seal are more forgiving to high hp abuse, +1 for ra super seals. |
Originally Posted by seandizzie
(Post 10888940)
Just sayin, I have a Fd with a warblo 255 550/1300 combo, Stock fpr, with a 35r. I run 19-20 psi and see high 90's injector duty, have trapped 98mph in the1/8 on street tires using 93 octane, to indicate HP, as I never put the car on a dyno. I don't drive on the dyno, so y the hell would I tune the car there :).
So Basiclly I have a fuel pump and injectors and THATS IT! I actully bought the injector 2nd hand too. This car has had the same turbo and injector combo since 2005 and has nearly 50,000 miles on it. I have had 0 pump and injector failures. This combo can work and run just fine for very cheap.So people claiming it won't work messed up sumwhere. Maybe not 450 but damn close. Its more than enough power to make you smile. If you go to Rotary performances hp calculator 550/1300 at 100% can make 570fwhp. O and don't push stock apexseals hard, they won't last long...aftermarket seal are more forgiving to high hp abuse, +1 for ra super seals. |
i was am running 550/1600 and I was seeing 90% @ 18 psi hmm..
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It's great that this is your experience but one car doesn't make the case for all 13,000 FDs in the US. When it comes to the fuel system, cutting corners on a modded turbo rotary is a recipe for disaster IMO.
Originally Posted by seandizzie
(Post 10888940)
Just sayin, I have a Fd with a warblo 255 550/1300 combo, Stock fpr, with a 35r. I run 19-20 psi and see high 90's injector duty, have trapped 98mph in the1/8 on street tires using 93 octane, to indicate HP, as I never put the car on a dyno. I don't drive on the dyno, so y the hell would I tune the car there :).
So Basiclly I have a fuel pump and injectors and THATS IT! I actully bought the injector 2nd hand too. This car has had the same turbo and injector combo since 2005 and has nearly 50,000 miles on it. I have had 0 pump and injector failures. This combo can work and run just fine for very cheap.So people claiming it won't work messed up sumwhere. Maybe not 450 but damn close. Its more than enough power to make you smile. If you go to Rotary performances hp calculator 550/1300 at 100% can make 570fwhp. O and don't push stock apexseals hard, they won't last long...aftermarket seal are more forgiving to high hp abuse, +1 for ra super seals. |
agreed... dont think ill chance it.... fuel system is one area overkill is better than just about every other option....
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I would highly recommend not going with a 850cc primary.
I am currently using: Bosch 850cc Pri Bosch 1680cc Sec KG Parts Rails Aeromotive FPR SaRD 280lph pump (Supra) FJO injector driver I wish I would have done more research before going with this setup. All works very well except my 850cc primaries. Driveability is a little rough and leaning out my idle is futile. I have tons of fuel but I don't have that OEM smoothness. You can also consider keeping your 550cc OEM primaries, and using a 1680cc Bosch or ID 2000 secondary. The gap is large but a good tuner will have no problem smoothing it out. I will be upgrading to Injector Dynamics injectors once I start my 500whp build. Do some research on the ID injectors. They use a superior Bosch design where atomization and tuneability has far surpassed the old Bosch design. The new setup will be: ID 720cc Pri ID 2000cc Sec KG Parts rails Aeromotive FPR Dual SaRD 280lph pumps (Supra) No need for resistors or an FJO injector driver with the ID's either. They are the naturalistic high impedance injector that Power FC's love. If you are using a Mictrotech, this will not matter. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ector+dynamics |
^I'm running an almost idential fuel system and have none of the issues you mention. I wouldn't blame it on the 850cc primaries, there's something else going on with your setup.
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
(Post 10902948)
^I'm running an almost idential fuel system and have none of the issues you mention. I wouldn't blame it on the 850cc primaries, there's something else going on with your setup.
Ya know, I always suspected that. I have researched and read back and fourth of people that have no issues with drive-ability and idle, and some that do. Another issue I have is tip in. When I first dip into the throttle lightly, it goes lean. Just for a split second, but just enough to make it stutter. I won't clutter up the OP's thread, I may PM you. Thanks |
One thing to remember is that people will have these issues running the OEM side feed 850cc high impedance injectors in the primary locations. Tuned properly people have run 1000+ cc primary top feed low impedance injectors.
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Again I don't don't claim thats it is the best way to build the fuel system, i am running it on the very edge to run that much boost and I have spent years fine tunning the fuel map for the ports i have to get the boost that high, but it works, and has for a while.
za raida- i am not full of shit. I will share my maps and data loggs if you like. the t3 68mm exhaust wheel I have is choking the crap out of the motor at 20psi), the wastegate has a hard time controling boost over12psi. A t4 is going to be a lil different I think, and mani pressure is not a good standard to compare different setups as too many factors effect the results, my 20psi is different than your 20psi. On the street 550/1300 are more than enough power to beat most anything around...Cheap, easy, but no room to grow if you want more power, I personally don't. |
I'm wondering what your power output is...... I mean, I'm running a single at 20+ psi with much larger injectors and a much larger pump. Also making upwards of 500 rwhp.
It's possible you're making 360-390 rwhp on your setup with that fueling, which makes sense. I always overbuild fuel systems. You should consider yourself lucky to be having zero problems :icon_tup:
Originally Posted by seandizzie
(Post 10903595)
Again I don't don't claim thats it is the best way to build the fuel system, i am running it on the very edge to run that much boost and I have spent years fine tunning the fuel map for the ports i have to get the boost that high, but it works, and has for a while.
za raida- i am not full of shit. I will share my maps and data loggs if you like. the t3 68mm exhaust wheel I have is choking the crap out of the motor at 20psi), the wastegate has a hard time controling boost over12psi. A t4 is going to be a lil different I think, and mani pressure is not a good standard to compare different setups as too many factors effect the results, my 20psi is different than your 20psi. On the street 550/1300 are more than enough power to beat most anything around...Cheap, easy, but no room to grow if you want more power, I personally don't. |
What turbo do you run Goodfella? 500r right?
The guy in post 27 of this thread made 386whp with the exact same turbo as me at 15psi. At 20psi u state I make less than that. Now thats a little strange to me... 98 mph trap is how much whp?? Yes I am lucky and crazy. If you have the money spend it. What I mention is a good poor mans option. |
Originally Posted by seandizzie
(Post 10906003)
What turbo do you run Goodfella? 500r right?
The guy in post 27 of this thread made 386whp with the exact same turbo as me at 15psi. At 20psi u state I make less than that. Now thats a little strange to me... 98 mph trap is how much whp?? Yes I am lucky and crazy. If you have the money spend it. What I mention is a good poor mans option. Edit you mean 1/8th, that is probably about 380rwhp. |
Originally Posted by Jobro
(Post 10909134)
With a completely straight serious face, 98mph terminal is only an honest 180rwhp in a 3000lb as raced car weight.
I raise you one silly face to your straight face! :lol: Seriously I was laughing out loud... What are we talking about here again? |
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