Finally joined the 600WHP club...
 

Hi Everyone,

I have finally corrected most of the issue I was having with my new set up and I am extremely happy with the results. Getting the AEM series 1 to work correctly was a bear but once it was all sorted out was so much more capable then my old Power FC. The attached dyno chart is for my high and low boost settings which are around 26psi and 14psi respectively.

I am very impressed with the boost response and mid-range torque of the S366. Pretty unbelievable for a decently sized journal bearing turbo.

My old set up can be viewed here: GT4088 on E85.

Main changes I made are as follows:

Turbo System:
S366
New Turblown Twin Gate manifold Design
3.5 inch DP and MP

Fuel
2 ID 1000 primaries
4 ID 2000 Secondaries

Ignition
4 AEM Smart Coils in Direct Fire
4 NGK 7420 11 heat range

Engine Management
AEM Series 1

• Dual Knock Control
• Direct Fire Ignition
• Boost Control
• O2 Feed Back and Idle Control

good numbers, what turbine you running

1.10 A/R housing.

Grats man! I hope you're able to maintain and remain in the club for a while (aka, hope the motor holds solid!! :fingersx::bigthumb: )

If you don't mind, would you share your AEM EMS map/calibration file? I'm kinda curious how you had the knock control, boost control, and a few other things set up.

Congrats! Looks like a fun powerband....

This was on e85? what are the specs on the engine?

Nice numbers indeed :icon_tup:

and nice boost control

Impressive! Big congrats!

Congrats,Nice numbers.

I was planning on switching my .91 back housing on my old S366 setup to the 1.10, but then the engine bay fire happen.

Thanks everyone. The engine is a AZRR full large street port build. I have been over 500WHP for about 2 years now and the engine has never missed a beat. This was on E85. I have a Ethanol content analyzer and the E85 is currently at 84%.

No problem. The main issue is the AEM documentation incorrectly marked the knock 2 input pin. It is labeled 1F but it is really 1D, at least in a Series 1 ECU that was updated by AEM to the latest specs. I am still trying to determine what voltage to consider knock. So far all activity has been well under a volt. Do you by chance know what the voltage scale for the Power FC knock values are?

Can you pm me your email address? It is not letting me attach the AEM file.

Nice number Sir...

Neutron can you please post pics of your fuel setup specially the fuel rails..
I have almost the same setup but with only 4 ID 2000cc injectors.. I will be adding two 1000cc before going to the dyno like you...

I thinking about changing my .91 to a 1.10 also in my BW 366 but I like the spool on the 0.91 for the street..

Again congrats on the 600whp club..? .

I wish I would of taken a picture before putting the UIM back on but I am using the CJ fuel rail kit with 4 port secondary rail which is compatible with the Xcessive LIM.

Starting back at the fuel tank I am running a single 044 in-tank which is a lift pump for 2x044 which are housed in a Surge Tank. -6 Feed to surge tank and -6 return from surge tank. From the surge tank both 044 feed a single -8 line.

If you need more specifics let me know.

Thank you sir for the reply...

enjoy the new power...

Bringing this back to ask another question. Nutron made this power on a 1.10 turbine housing. Do you guys think that 550rwhp is doable on the the s366 .91 back housing with a street ported block, below 30psi?

Most of the better deals on the s366 come with the .91a/r housing.

As long as you have all of the necessary supporting mods you should have no problems making 550 on E85. I made 580whp on the .91 but had crazy compressor surge. With my set up it spooled to fast.

Since this popped back up I did go back to the dyno a few months later when it was cooler. Timing was a little more aggressive which helped lower EGT’s. Mid-range torque and power definitely improved.

"which helped lower EGT’s"

what were your egts?

Previously they were in the 1800 degree range at 26psi. Now they are high 1600 to low 1700's at max power levels. Timing is still really conservative.

I am running pump fuel with water injection, will this make a difference at tho the turbos capabilities with the .91 housing?

So you changed to the 1.10 to get rid of the compressor surge.

I honestly do not know. I am sure E85 does allow for a little more power but I could not tell you how much more. I do know that when my tuner compared my curve and HP/TQ numbers to all of the other FD's that he tuned on the same dyno under the same conditions there was no comparison.

I did change to the 1.10 purely to get rig of compressor surge. It was worse on the street then the dyno as the car seems to spool faster off the dyno. It was pretty much un-drivable on the street at low RPM. I am guessing E85 has a little to do with the response improvement but I think Elliot's awesome new manifold has something to do with it as well.

Are you ready for a 9180 yet ?

Hopefully by next summer. I'm trying to strengthen the drivetrain before making anymore power and torque. The rear end is done and ready. I'm saving for a Liberty Gears reworked trans and dual or triple disc clutch before making the switch.

You guys know here can I pickup a new or used 1.0 turbine for the s366?

This makes me excited to see what my BEP s366 does. Congrats!

Jetlude - Exhaust Housings

Cheapest I've found BW products. Although these are using the marmon flange still.

Hey Neutron, thanks for posting up this information, this thread and your GT4088 thread have been helping with trying to make a decision for a turbo on my build. I'm also in AZ and am building an RX-8 with an REW for Time Attack/Road Racing. Also will be getting tuned at Tony's.


I was just wondering with those injectors, what's your duty cycle at? I know you were maxed with 6x ID1000's, and that's what I have right now.

Also torn between the 8374 and the 9180, shooting for 500-550WHP range, the response of the 8374 would be nice but lower EGT and manifold pressure of the 9180 is a huge bonus if the hit on spool isn't bad... I heard it was about 500RPM difference.


Seeing how much lower his EGT's were with a bigger turbo... I want one haha.

The AEM is saying 45% but I do not think this is correct. Sounds way to low.

The 6x ID 1000's would be fine on E85 at 500whp with the base pressure bumped up but if you are planning to go to 550 or higher I would definitely go with the 4x ID 2000 secondaries and have plenty of room to grow.

Yeah 45% doesn't sound right, if that was true then the 6x ID1000 should have worked and would have been at around 85% duty cycle.


I think I will go with 6x ID1300, that is what my friend that works at ID suggested. Apparently they are the best injector for alternative fuels out of their line up thanks to all stainless internals.

I have heard the same thing. Pretty much compatible with all fuel types.

Thanks for the info

I just joined the club too, now gotta change out the fuel for c16 and shoot for 700+whp club

I'm right there with you. Strengthening the driveline, planning to make the switch to the AEM infinity now that rotary support is available and moving to the EFR 9180.

"The AEM is saying 45% but I do not think this is correct. Sounds way too low."

Neutron

600 hp. SAE

10,000 CC/Min nominal at 45% = 4500 CC/Min Gross fuel

remove lag at 13%

4500 X .87 = 3915 CC/M Net fuel


Howard

575 hp SAE

8000 (4- 2000) CC injectors at 54% = 4320 CC/Min Gross fuel

remove lag at 13%

4320 X .87 = 3758 CC/M net fuel

(25/26 psi GT4094r on E85)

CC/HP

Neutron 6.55

Howard 6.53

pretty close so probably our duty cycles are accurate.

HC

Cool. Thanks Howard.

"6x ID1300, that is what my friend that works at ID suggested. Apparently they are the best injector for alternative fuels out of their line up thanks to all stainless internals."

while E85 brings a bit of magic to our motors, the current fuel injector (2000 cc) is not the long term answer. alcohol, unlike gasoline, absorbs moisture and the 2000 injector has key parts that can rust.

there appears to be, as of August, an injector solution. rest assured, you will be running some derivation of these injectors in the future.

here's a link to learn more:

ASNU High Performance Injectors

a snippet for you:

"At 1650cc/min this Bosch EV14-based injector:

is the highest flowing high impedance performance injector compatible with ALL fuels,
can be driven with the saturated drivers found in every OE ECU and most aftermarket ECU's.

Equipped with the stainless alloy valve found in all Bosch injectors produced for gasoline applications, this injector will be compatible with MTBE race fuels like Q16 and VP Import. In addition the ASNU 1650cc injector won't be susceptible to the internal rust issues found in natural gas injectors, which occur when the water attracted by alcohol fuels separates causing rust that seizes the injector internals.

Because ASNU's 1650cc high impedance performance injector passed multiple rounds of endurance testing in Bosch's primary injector R&D facility in Germany, it has a Bosch OE part number."

the August release is not news. here's an 80 post thread from the GTR board"

ASNU’s 1650cc high-impedance Performance injector is here! - Engine - GT-R Life

if we were to use the 6.5 CC to make one rotary rwhp...

1650 X 4 = 6600 X .85 IDC X .87 Lag = 4881 / 6.5 = 751 rwhp

i bought my ANSU/Bosch 1650s from FuelInjectorConnection. Fuel Injector Clinic also offers them and ID is working on a similar 1750 CC unit.

hopefully we will be able to forget fuel injectors as a maintenance item in the future.

howard

I just thought I would post on my experience with ID1000cc injectors with E-85 (primary). I used them for a little over a year and started having issues with the engine missing and hesitation from off throttle to on throttle and even when starting the engine it would sometimes start on one injector etc. I run my car on E-85 and have always. It ended up being the injectors which for some reason weren't dealing with the E-85 well. I switched them to 2000cc primaries (Not ID) and the problem instantly went away (not sure how long these will last though). And here I was thinking I was getting the best thing for my setup when I purchased them, pretty disappointed. If you want more info, go on the supra forums, many people having issues with ID when using Ethanol fuels for some reason. I want to clarify that I am actually a fan of ID injectors, just posting what my particular experience was on pump E-85.

Cheers!

Chris

My experience with the ID's have been very good. My luck could be related to the fact that I live in a very dry climate, maybe the driest in the US. This injector set up has been down for extended periods of time with the longest being a little over 3 months. There were at least 3 stints of over a month and it is regularly not started for weeks at a time as this is not my DD and my current situations calls for 2 car seats most of the time. It always has a near full tank of gas.

I recently has a small engine fire at my regulator that caused me to replace the 2 lines from the rails to the regulator and to repair the front rotor injector wiring. Even though I had no issues I decided to send my injectors off to be inspected and cleaned by ID because they were easily accessible and due to all of the horror stories I have heard. It was also convenient that the ID engineering/development and cleaning facility is just a few miles from my house. I got the report back and the results were all 6 injectors were factory perfect. No cleaning needed at all.

Before I knew E85 was the only option for me due to my goals with the car I did a lot of research. None of which was rotary related as there was very little to be found. The consensus was almost all E85 related issues could of been avoided and were almost always a result of the user. Almost anywhere on the web there were just a few things that were common from others experiences.

I am not saying if you do what is listed above you will not have issues. I am just saying doing the above has worked for me so far.

Congratulations on your hard work!

I hope I get numbers like yours when I hit the dyno.

I said ID1300, not ID2000. Big difference, not sure why you quoted me like that? I'm not interested in using ASNU injectors in my build. I already have more than enough flow capacity with what I think is the best injector for E85 on the market.

Most of the issues you see with ID and E85 is with the ID2000 and letting them sit for extended periods of time. They weren't specifically designed for alternative fuels like say the ID1300 is. Even then, I'm sure a lot of the issues with clogged fuel injectors, of any brand, are the result of not properly converting to E85 like Neutron outlined in his post.

"I said ID1300, not ID2000."

my apologies to you as i didn't make it clear that i was not referencing you re E85 and injectors but was commenting generally to the other 95% of E85/rotary users that run 2000/2200 injectors.

the reason for my post was 2fold:

rust IS the primary adversary if you are running 2000/2200s

there is a new higher flowing option that is rust resistant like your ID1300s but has higher flow capacity which will help the majority of users that are running 4 injectors.

i have no horse in this race. i don't sell injectors and wish all that do (including ID) good luck.

howard