Bullseye S480
 

Got my new turbo in yesturday and this thing is huge 80mm cold side and 1.32 hot with 96mm trim . Here are a few pics. Enjoy ! The turbo next to it is a PeakBoost A/R70 with a 1.00 hot side

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7784/imag0163dr7.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8684/imag0165fd8.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6992/imag0166wq6.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5269/imag0167hr9.jpg

Hi,
I have one myself.
I think they are a great turbo
They will outflow any equivalent sized turbo on the market
They (S480) has 8 compressor blades as opposed to the Garrett 80mm comp wheel which has only 6 blades, that's ~25% more airflow!!
They have extended tips so they hold more air flow and boost pressure
You definately made a good choice there

That's one big boy you got there! Did it get dropped on the turbine housing?

bad ass turbo.

Hello pmr , from what I hear of everyone I talk to that are running this the tell me nothing but good thing about them . You have yours up and running yet ? How it spools and poweband thru the rpm's ? This is strickly for drag racing can wait till all together up and running .

Hi mono4 , yes it is . That glue from ducktape that was on it .

Hey Thanks TT get ready 4 whats coming .

Another Pic
 

Seems like everyone is going with this turbo nowadays... I can't wait to see what it can do. Not sure about the 2 extra blades giving 25% more airflow though... doesn't make sense to me.

did you go with the standard or race comp cover? i got a 475 with race cover. i cant wait to see this thing in action.

It doesn't work that way my friend.... Though it IS a better design :icon_tup:

-J

That is a standard cover. Should have been around 800 bucks. You can get the BW480 with the race cover direct from BW (177287). They are only around 1000 or less from a diesel shop....

i paid well under that. lol

Cool deal...yeah. A diesel shop in FL had them for 699 new shipped to the door. My buddy picked one up 2 months ago. Working great....just a touch laggy though. But hey.....spray it!!!

I went with the standard cover since you dont gain that mutch with the race cover , here is the link to bullseye check out where it talks about the new race cover http://www.bullseyepower.com/news.asp?id=49 .

LOL , call bullseye and try buying one for that ! like you said for diesel are 1000 or less for a car it would trim , exhaust housing ahd manny other things to your specs and needs and these such things cost more . here is the bullseye catalog with different size turbos and prices http://www.bullseyepower.com/catalog.asp .

i am really thinking of going with this turbo myself, but i am wondering if i really need the s480, as apposed to the s475. If anybody is familiar with both of these, is there any noticable increase in spool time between the two?

What are you going to use for the street racing or drag racing only ? what makes your spool up laggier or quicker is your exhaust side thats what you need to consider for the quick spooling the cold side is the amount of air you want it produce.

Correction: A properly sized "exhaust side" can and will help with the "spool up". But it has more to do with the balance between the wheels.

-J

well, a peripheral port s475 or s480 with a 1.32 turbine housing. i would be getting the new stlye race housing. the engine is already starting its build, but i have time to think about what turbo i am using.

Hi,
I just finished my studies for the year, therefore have been busy with that and have done very little on engine
I have bought some parts and planning to buy some more in the coming months
My engine will be ready to start probably in a year or two
It's hard for me to save up money as I work part time and have no time to work any extra hours because of my studying commitments
Things are looking up though, I have 3.5 months free now, to work and make money, so I like to save up the money needed, to hopefully complete a large portion of what else is required on the engine

The exhaust wheel and housing is quite large on the S480, therefore I'd probably go with a smaller diameter manifold piping if you're worried about spool

More blades do infact increase airflow
8 vs 6 blades, 2 blades difference = 25%

Yeah it does...

Oh Awsome..... Im having the CNC machine cut me a compressor wheel with 657 blades on it so I can make 38,964hp!!! Thank you for your help bud :icon_tup:

-J

Lol ok, without the airflow data (I can't find any S480 data) it would be hard to figure out the exact difference
~25% is pretty high but can we agree that the increase airflow will be quite signifiicant?

dude can i get one!?!?!? lol

I can't tell you the exact % of increase, but I will say that I'm sure I know why BW did it and IN THIS CASE it probably is more efficiant. But, just because a compressor has more blades doesn't make it better. In a lot of cases it makes it worse. It has to do more with the shape, pitch and angle of the blades and how they work together not only with one another but also with the housing/inlet.

-J

+1

There is no way in hell just adding additional compressor blades is going to linearly increase airflow like that.

so does anybody know if there would be an noticeable increase in spool between the s475 and s480 in my application?

as far as i know they are identical turbos except the 480 has a 5mm bigger comp wheel. so a 480 would spool just a tad slower, but probably not enough to notice.

it is a $200 difference, and i think that the s475 is enough for my application, but i am not sure.

if your are looking to drive it on the streets and drag race it you could consider going with a 1.10 on the hot side with any of this choices of Turbine Wheel Inducer - 83/87/96 andTurbine Wheel Trim - 83/87 and will put you around Horsepower Rating - 500-1000 .

Ultimately flow is governed by the cross sectional area of the blades (nothing else)
Consider the BW 80mm comp wheel, if the blade had the same blade cross sectional area as the Garrett (80mm comp wheel) blade and the compressor wheels were rotating at the same speed the flow (from each blade) would be the same (if they both have the same inducer and exducer diameters). Therefore if additional blades were added the flow would increase (this is a fact). But, this all changes with the efficiency of the compressor wheel at the determined rotational speed. Increasing comp wheel rotation reduces efficiency! Changing the blade configurations (as you mentioned) may or may not increase efficiency (depends on the initial design, at what speed you want it to be most efficient). Additional blades reduce efficiency at higher rotational speeds. At some particular speed (most probably at lower rotational speeds, where there would have the greatest flow difference, to mid range speeds), the S480 comp wheel would have ~25% more flow because of the additional blades.

If you don't believe me please speak to an engineer at garrett and they will tell you the same thing

If the exhaust (the exhaust manifold, turbo housing AR andthe turbo wheel was the same) the S480 turbo would spool a little quicker because of the additional airflow (larger wheel more air)

I wasn't totally disagreeing with you chief....chill out. :icon_tup: Obviously the ultimate deciding factor in flow is the the comp diameter. That's not exactly ground breaking information.

Let me ask you this: At what comressor speed do the added blades make the unit "25%" more efficient? Are you running that boost level? Are you even going to be at the place in the comp. map that you'll benifit from this amazing "25%" gain? I highly doubt it.

Also, "increasing comp wheel rotation" does NOT reduce efficiency. It does past a point but that statment can't be an absolute.
Haha no need for me to call garrett bud, I know.....

That's ~(means approx.) 25% flow gain not efficiency gain. I can't answer that because I don't have the flow data on the S480 comp wheel. As I said before it will be at lower rotational speeds. Yes when on boost

Have you ever seen a centrifugal belt driven supercharger and the amount of blades the impeller has? Well I can tell you they have alot >8 why, because their rotational speed is much less then a turbocharger

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...pmap_large.gif
Ok, see the speeds, 84000, 91000, 100000rpm and the efficiency, 79%-70%
You can see an deduction in efficiency with an increase in speed

I agree, think about an airplane prop- if this is true, you would have 8 or 10
blades. You see 2 or 3 usually. Also think @ a boat prop. I think the high
speed boats use fewer blades, more for low end pull. I have no data and
am just contemplating. Another thing that comes into play is pitch- I mean
are the blades the same pitch on these two turbos?- unlikely.

boats and planes have different amounts of blades for a different reason. they have fewer for speed(like drag boats with 2) and more for pulling power. you ever seen a cargo plane with less than 4?

If you want to compare apples with oranges then what about the plane jet engine, have you seen how many blades they have?

Must impellers are very similar in their configurations

Good point! I think a jet engine would be a better comparison and they do have alot of blades. Do we have any nasa engineers on this site to chime in?:Wconfused

<---retired Boeing Aero engineer if that will work.

Plain and simple answer is the more blades a comp wheel has and the thicker the blades, the less a wheel will flow. So a 6 blade versus a 8 blade wheel of the same design the 6 blade will outflow the 8 blade counterpart. Only thing is the 8 blade design will move the air sooner per 1 rev of the shaft up to a certain X shaft speed. Their is a reason why the Formula 1 turbos of the 80's ran 3 and 4 blade design and not 8-10 blades. They were limited to a certain inducer size and had to design a charger to move the most amount of air with that limited inducer size. The only problem with less blades, is that it will make a compressor map more narrow, but a formula 1 car operated at a very high rpm and narrow range during racing that the limited blade count did not effect driveability.

^^^Take notes folks.....

-J

A 8 blade compressor wheel will hold higher boost/pressure better than any 6 blade wheel period! Why because the additional blades hold the pressure better, not allowing the air to escape. A 6 blade wheel may or may not outflow a 8 blades depends on the circumstances, comp wheel speed the biggest factor

I agree!

You are wrong there!
They never ran 3-4 blades (well I haven't seen any)
The turbo F1 engines ran very high boost, they had 6-7 blades
Here is the proof,
http://blog.gtroc.com/dino/Honda-CH-159.jpg
Honda 6 blades
http://www.cimanet.co.uk/realhondaf1...987RA167E.jpeg
http://doughy.theddrzone.com/bm1.jpg
BMW 6 blades
http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/DSCN4180a.jpg
TAG- Porsche 7 blades
http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/EngineZakspeed2.jpg

For further F1 information check out this great site
http://www.gurneyflap.com

I have never found any tubo that have more compressor blades to outflow more than one with less in the same given dimension and that's not base on what I've read form the internet either. Actual testing at 50 to 70 psi most 7 blades fall short way below that and 8 blades are not even considered for that application.
It's well known fact to those who have actual experience that more blades equals more/broader airfow at lower than at higher speeds. More blades give a wider compressor map.

"First off let me say 'no' politely"

These wheels will not hold boost period. They are not airtight(or anything close to it for that matter). If they are generating pressure greater than the pressure present in the intake plenum(on the engine side of the compressor) then the boost is not leaking or going anywhere. Not to mention: more blades means more holes through which boost would "escape" (though not in any applicable anecdote).

This is a very hard situation to explain but to put it simply: After a certain point additional blades will only screw themselves over. The more blades on the inducer the less opportunity each blade has to grab additional air due to the low pressure area created in the wake of the preceeding blade. More blades can only be smaller and thus cannot push the air with as much force as a wider blade.

With fewer blades at any given RPM mother nature will have more time to erase the "vacuum" created by the preceeding blade. Thus there will be more air to grab and wider blades to push it harder than a design with more blades. This design fails to take advantage of a "low" rpm situation where air is abundant.

So if the space between each blade is less wouldn't more blades be better at holding boost/pressure?
Since the gap between each blade is larger with the 6 blade wheel, than there is a likely hood of greater chance for the air to escape with the 6 blade wheel?

The efficiency is less on higher speeds, yes I agree!
I mentioned that before

I think your're talking about the inertia of the air?
I agree the less blades are more efficient at higher speeds

My information was gathered from a textbook on the fluid dynamics of a centrifugal pump
Your practical experience can't be questioned
If that's the case then I take your word for it, that is if the inducer and exducer dimensions were the same
The larger the difference between the inducer and exducer diameters, the greater the ability for the compressor wheel to hold more pressure more efficiently

all the info i needed

Check some of the turbos they used in qualifying trim (Keke Rossberg,Mansell and Piquet) and later banned to 6-7 blade design. Shortly after that turbos were then banned all together.

I don't know why ppl are concern about the wheel having 6 ,7 blades and the 8 blade this that . I dont see anything bad about the Borgwarner desing at all its been proven on many cars .
Here are some Dyno vids of car running the S480 !

http://www.grs-motorsports.com/notic...carolina/3.wmv

http://www.grs-motorsports.com/notic...carolina/4.wmv

http://www.grs-motorsports.com/notic...carolina/6.wmv

http://www.grs-motorsports.com/notic...carolina/5.wmv

You got pics, I collect racing engine pics
and I'd appreciate some new additions

Loved the video's, Thanks

For what I payed and the power I'm after, the turbo is more than adequate
I will definately be looking to upgrade the turbo to a much larger one, when funds become available and I start chasing the need for more power

I wish 13BT_Starlet all the best and success with his S480 8 blade turbocharger!