Bosch -044 Lets go while driving...only 5-6k miles...WTF? E85 caused this?
 

I need some insight. I have a parallel dual Bosch -044 setup. One runs constantly and the other one I have running through a separate relay with a pressure switch attached so it comes on at about 5psi of boost.

Yesterday I was driving about 1 mile from home...(luckily I wasn't getting into it) and the engine suddenly stopped at a stop sign. I tried restarting it and nothing...I noticed I couldn't hear the pump priming so I went to the fuse box and noticed the fuse for the pump had blown...so I replaced it and when I put the key on again...I heard it but it sounded struggling...then it slowed down until it stopped again....I go and look and the fuse is blown again...the pump sounds like it is messed up inside.

Here are the conditions: the pump has like 5k of use. I know E85 tends to clog filters after switching from gas to it but when I installed these...I installed the entire system new, its not like I was using the old fuel lines and then they got cleaned by the E85 and ended up in the filter. The only thing that is the same as old is the fuel tank...which wasn't really that bad considering the car is a 2004.

Basically right now I have to make a decision, I will pull the pump assembly from under the car and make sure the filters are cleaned/replaced....regardless, I will have to decide whether I buy another Bosch fuel pump and replace the one (200.00+) or whether I change my pump setup to one of the large single pump units on the market. The car runs on E85 which requires way more fuel than gas and I want to have fuel available for at least 550whp on E85...according to my calculations a single -044 pump is good for about 380whp on E85 in a turbo rotary and that is why I had two.

Please advise...I really need your help on this one guys...I didn't expect an OEM pump meant to drive for 200k miles to puss out on me like that...especially an expensive one.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

I have never heard of an 044 failing so soon. I know of plenty of cars running E85 without issue and being OEM, they have a great track record of lasting forever. I would pull the pumps out and inspect them closely to make sure you know exactly what happened.

if you have paper filters, than that is your problem with e85. go with a mesh/screen filter and that should work.

I am about 95% sure they are mesh/screen filters but in the event they are not. Do you think the filter is clogged and the pump can't push the fuel through so it is slowing down until it almost has to stop and that is causing the fuse to blow?

Thanks for the replies guys...this helps lots.

Chris

idk man, you have to pull the pump and see what is going on there. something just isnt right.

i would pull the pump [properly] and crack it open, just make sure you are properly grounded (not sure if there is a capacitor in there or something that could blow your tits off and make your dick explode). if it looks like it is clogged, than that is your problem. if it looks like something fried, than you have an electrical problem and you need to break out the ohm meter. those are the only two likely sources that i can think of right now.

Are you saying to crack open the fuel pump? These are stamped....I can try but first I will see how my filters are doing and try to run the pump outside on its own....if it runs then its just a clogged filter issue.

Anyone else have anything like this happen to them?

Chris

oh ok, i am not too familiar yet with these pumps. let us know.

Another question, do you guys place the filters on the inlet side of the pump or the outlet?

I am just trying to see if I did something wrong on my install.

Chris

straight from motec

http://www.motec.com.au/image_displa...m+inkscape.png

Ok, then its right....I believe my filters are 10micron...but that doesn't make a difference...they are in the right spot...

Thanks.

Anyone else have any ideas?


Chris

i use a Bosch 044 variant in my Auxiliary Injection system. it pumps 100% methanol (alcohol) and runs perfectly going on 2 years. i bet it isn't the pump.

howard coleman

Yeah...I am thinking it might be the filter and its causing the pump to push against a wall and this is making ti draw more than 20amps and is blowing the fuse...

Hopefully....(crosses fingers)

Chris

I've actually NEVER heard of an 044 pump failing. I always use them and believe they are one of the best all around high performanc pump you can buy.


-J

Are you sure it was a real bosch pump, and not an ebay knock off? I've heard the knock offs are prone to failure.

^^^exactly what I was thinking.....

No, its a Bosch one from a Bosch distributor. It came with all the right markings, labels on the box and on the pump itself including a bunch of extra stuff I didn't use that I assume is for an OEM install in a porsche or something.

At least this I know for a fact.

I ordered SS mesh filters today to replace both of mine. Should be here friday if I'm lucky. I will pull the pumps tomorrow and open the assembly up, if it runs without the filter then at least I know the pump is working. I will also take the filters appart to look at how F'ed up they probably are.

Any other ideas???

Chris

Are the pumps pulling from a surge tank or a sump?? I have heard that the 044 pumps should not be run with a siphon pick-up, could that be your problem?

Ryan

Etched into the pump body is the country of manufacture. As far as I'm aware the genuine pumps say 'made in Czech Republic'. Knock off's say 'made in Germany'.

How true is this?

I just pulled the pump assembly out of the car and checked....the filters are paper...and the one on the "primary" pump was kinda hard to blow air through...which explains why it would strain and blow the 20 amp fuse but the pump still runs...the filter looked black like it had caught all kinds of crap...and the element was severely deteriorated...probably from reacting with the E-85.

What I did find is that the other pump that is supposed to only come on during boost doesn't work....this pump barely came on...I know because the filter for it was basically clean...yet the pump will not turn. It will just give a slight "toc" when 12v is connected but does not run...and it appears are though its shorted out...or something is not letting it run...

Regardless both pumps say Made in Germany....I will post some pics of the box it came in (with the label etc and all accessories) and of the markings on the pump...

Any ideas?

Chris

Here are some pics...

The first is of the fitting that came installed at the outlet end of the pump which I didn't use and you can see the label for the box clearly. The second one is of the fuel pump which shows where it says Germany...all the other numbers are there as well as a symbol and some other lettering. The third one is just the pump next to the box....

This blows if its a fake...it was sold to me as an original..

Also, should I have an external checkvalve on the one that comes on with boost so its not receiving all of the pressure from the other pump constantly? I always thought the internal pump checkvalve was good enough...

Anyone?

Chris

Mine says made in Czech Republic-you probably have a fake.

Here are 2 genuine pumps I have at the mo.

I've used both genuine and knock off 910's with no issues. The place selling me the knock off 910's mentioned they'd sold a couple of hundred with no come backs, but that they wouldn't sell knock off 044's as they were prone to failure.

Every genuine pump I've seen says 'made in czech republic'. The 3 knock off 910's I've used said 'made in germany'. Other than that the pumps and fittings looked identical.

I'm pretty familiar with several of the Bosch high-flow pumps after more than a decade of running them. Gone through a half dozen 044s (among others) on my two RX-7s and unfortuantely learned too much the hard way. Here's some thoughts:

• Genuine 044 are stamped with "Made in Czech Republic." Search the Internet. Unfortunately, these have become the de rigeur standard on hi-pressure, high flow fuel systems and the knockoff industry has fully engaged the market.
• The 044 have ZERO tolerance for any inlet contamination. Inlet filteration IS CRITICAL in these pumps. The "tock" you mentioned sounds a lot like the sound that has opened my wallet on more than one occasion.
• Do NOT dry benchtest the pump's. Again, the pump's tight tolerance are intolerant of running outside their design parameters (i.e. wet/lubricated.)
• Once inoperative, use them in ammo for your potato cannon, hang them around your neck in Flavor Flav fashion statements or simply throw them away. No rebuild/refurbishment is possible.
  
  
  As for the fuse popping, think of it not unlike detonation in our cars: HUNT AND FIX THE PROBLEM THE FIRST TIME. Never reset a fuse without understanding and correcting the problem. I really don't mean to be crass in saying this, but I can't over emphasize how important it is. I speak from personal experience. It NEVER gets better and almost always get's regretably worse.
  
  

:lol::lol::lol:

Carlos, we need more posting out of you in this section :icon_tup:

I completely understand what you are saying...

I checked the entire circuit and the issue was at the pump....No shorts were detected so I replaced the fuse....and only as the pump strained did it blow, when the pump was disconnected it would not blow...and I could measure 12v across the leads.

Either way...it looks as if I have been sold a knock-off as an original which sucks...the system only has about 5k miles on it....but its been almost a year since I bought them so the seller will probably not even respond to my email if I try anything.

About the "Toc", the fuel pump that has it and wont run has barely been run...it only comes on during boost....and that hasn't been much at all...proven by the clean filter in comparison to the other one...

My new filters arrive today, I will replace them and install everything back...I will just drive on the one pump so I can at least move the vehicle from my in-laws' house.

I now have to decide whether I will buy another one of these...at the risk of it being a knock off again....or whether I should just get 1 huge pump and eliminate the whole twin setup which has done nothing but over-complicate stuff. I am kind of glad this happened....that other pump wasn't running which means that after 380whp it would have starved...and my setup can produce 500whp or more...scary...

Any suggestions? I found a big Aeromotive type pump that's good to 1700hp on gas...this translates into about 7-800whp on E85....in the same ballpark as what I was looking for.

Chris