Best upgrade from a T04S (490hp)??
 

I have an FC that has a T04S and I wanted to know what would be the best turbo and any supporting mods in terms of Price + performance.

Mods known so far:

T04S turbine with giant external gate
INTER COOLER:Trust 3Core
Surge tank,throttle Body:For FD3S
Ignition system:New volt.
Computer:HKS V-PRO All setting.
Brake caliper:R32 GT-R
HKS drag hyperdampers
HKS Dog tranny 6Speed
Mazda speed 1Way diff
aftermarket downpipe
Titanium exhaust with a straightpipe to the downpipe
Boost controller
Volk wheels with drag rubber
upgraded injectors/fuelpump

Depends on what your goals are for the car. A very comparable turbo that makes more power is our P trim GT35R, its available both journal and BB;

http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=10

A standard GT35R spools a lot faster than your current turbo and makes about the same power.

Ball bearing T04S (also T04Z) uses a 'more efficient' turbine wheel than the journal bearing T04S/T67

You've then also got the turbonetics F1-65 with nearly identical dimensions.

In order for spool (opposite to predicted small change in horsepower capability)

Ball Bearing T04S/Z
Turbonetics F1-65
Journal Bearing T04S/T67

0.84 Ball Bearing T04S/Z will have a minuscule amount less peak flow than a 1.06 GT35R

So both the turbonetics and 1960s (LOL) style turbine shaft/wheel will support more power even using the 0.84.

Seeing as people have run 10 second/130+mph 1/4 mile's using single entry GT35 1.06 housings, a ball bearing T04S / 1.0 divided would have to support even more with slightly more lag and less load on engine.

People in Australia have ran 9 second 1/4 miles using 1.0 T04Z's also. My feeling is that when tuned to 500+rwhp (talking what most yanks would call 700+rwhp) they have problems with excessive backpressure, and thats why most 'heavy duty' / circuit cars are using bigger turbine housings or less boost for same 'performance' because they need to be able to do it for 10mins + at a time instead of 9 seconds at a time.

Technically, the 60-1 (T04S) uses the 60lb/min compressor (59mm) paired with a P trim turbine. The T04Z is a ball bearing T04R (67mm compressor, P trim turbine). The P trim turbine is identical between the two.

I would get the GT35R P trim from Turblown, or a billet 6765 from Precision.

I went from a T04S to a T04R. I'm pretty happy with it. It will make more power than most guys would ever really need. Precision 6765 has the same nominal dimensions as a T04R/T04Z and thus it has basically the same turbine side as the T04S.

How was the spool time affected when you went with the TO4R?

Have you got pictures showing they are identical? Because I have pictures showing they are not identical ;)

Post the pictures. Lots of guys from aus claim to have a gt40 wheel it appears in there, however I've never seen photos of it. Garrett claims no combo exists; ie all to4Zs use a ptrim wheel.

Depends on if they are using the actual TO4Z from HKS or Garrett's version, there are differences. Normally though Elliot has a point most people don't know what they really have for many different reasons. I would say step up to the 67/65with a 1.0 divided if 490whp is your goal. If your happy with 450whp step down to the 61mm compressor. All this depends on quality port work, tune, what boost level and what fuel used of course.

~S~

The Garrett P trim is one design. Turbonetics has one slightly different in blade contour.

+1. I hear some funny stuff come from Aussies. No offense to them, its just a common thing for some reason.

Have yet to compare the HKS and Garrett side by side, but as you already know Garrett builds turbos for HKS.

I have images of

Garrett Ball Bearing T04S
Garrett Factory T04S (60-1/p-trim 0.84)
Garrett Factory T04R (T67/p-trim 1.32)
HKS T04Z

Turbonetics F1-65 and F1-68 (from guys off this forum)

From what I can see (and what makes sense from a manufacturing point of view) is that all the Ball Bearing P-trim turbine wheels have the full shape blades (very similar blade shape to the FC3S Hitachi turbine). HKS T04Z p-trim, Garrett T04S and T04Z ball bearing all seem to have an 11 blade turbine that you can't see into.

Theres the turbonetics style F1 wheels where they have the swept back Garrett GT/ BW EFR style turbine wheel.

Then theres the nostalgic P-trims that you can see into because they appear to have a factory style back cut design.

Hi Sean,

when you say 490whp do you mean 9 second quarter mile whp or Fake titties hollywood style? haha

Its really hard to tell from someone elses results whether they are using a dyno that factors or even exaggerates drive-train loss, or if they are measuring TRUE wheel horsepower and to call it 'brake horsepower' the tuner should be adding about 17%

I used to think most guys over here in the land of OZ worked on what I would call 'honest' or GENUINE rwhp but its seemingly becoming less common. Certainly Australian tuners that deal with JDM phags that have no horsepower and love being lied to are all calling 300whp cars 400whp to look good. As do some Australian tuners on this forum.

When I say my car produces 330rwhp I mean factor in 17% drivetrain loss get a weigh bridge ticket and throw those numbers into Hales 1/4 mile formula and it comes back 100% honest terminal speed. Throw same numbers into LRT and Hales and that is the range that the E.T. falls into. The 60ft time needs to be immaculate to even get close to Hales prediction (within 0.1-0.4s of the E.T.).

I have a lot of respect for HC's work but he also has it wrong in my opinion. His turbo power policy states 60lb/min x10hp/lb/min div 1.3 turns into 460whp.

I was having a hard time turning 46lb/min into 330rwhp with 'lean E85 mixtures and aggressive timing'. Maybe I have more to learn and there are/were problems with my setup. But as an outside critic I can only treat what I call 'unverfied horsepower claims' with a grain of salt.

My view is the honest number is more like 1.4 and even my figure was using a 9.4:1 compression 12A with good port size / displacement. Throw in the greater frictional losses associated with a 13B length crank, less compression, and then Petrol mixtures which are always rich of 12.5:1 AFR and something still does not add up. The mixture of my 12A was tested to be .78 lambda which is lean of the fuel science predicted maximum fuel maximum torque of E85.

I can't give you a direct comparison. I had a .96 undivided turbine housing on the T04S, with HKS log manifold for FC. With the T04R I had a 1.00 divided housing with a divided stainless manifold. So with those hotside improvements spool actually improved.

this illustrates the folly of trying to match the dyno numbers people on the internet are getting.

Hence my point that I am learning vehicle weights and getting quarter mile terminal speeds to be the real judge. For the most part its sad, because the dyno seems completely unaccountable for. My trade is electronics and if I calibrated any OSHS instrument wrongly I'd probably goto jail.

Will any of these bolt in place of the T04S or would I need a different manifold/gate?

They all should bolt right in. Only difference will be the BB turbos will have slightly different oil feed and return flanges.

Here is our TD61 in action;
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/just-shy-500rwhp-another-td61-dyno-942273/

I know for a fact the TD61 is physically the same as a Garrett T04S. Zero modifications needed.

Personally I would keep using the 60-1 wheel over the T61 wheel (I'm not a fan of the TD61 conversions).

Turblown have you measured the inducer and excuder of the Garrett TD61 wheel you use Because my records show for compressor wheels.


64lb/min 65% efficient, upto 22psi, 60-1 = ~59mm inducer, ~76mm exducer
67lb/min 65% efficient upto 30psi T61 = ~61mm inducer, ~90mm exducer
62lb/min 65% efficient upto 26psi GT35R = ~62mm inducer, ~82mm exducer

So you compare all 3. There is bugger all difference in performance in the 0-22psi (0-1.5bar typical street boost). Fact is 60-1 will move 64lb/min air at 1.3-1.5 bar boost and still be 68% efficient just like the other 3. You also get the bonus of a cheap ($90) and easily sourced compressor wheel.

Any of them with any housing .84-1.15 will pass 500bhp and you'll be squeezing blood from a stone by 550bhp.

If you are building a journal bearing turbo you are better off using a turbonetics F1-65 or F1-68 turbine wheel instead of garrett P-trim.

The peril of using the ball bearing T04S/PtrimGT35R will be the nearly 100% set in stone fact that by 40 000miles to 60 000miles it will have 5mm + end play and be ready for the bin.