60-1.... which size injectors?
hey guys i will be poutting my 13b-re in the fc soon and i was wondrring what size injectors do u think i should run. wit the walbro fuel pump..i will be running the parall lines and i have a 60-1 turbo netics thinking of runing 15psi on the street and 20 on the track. what ya think? thanks in advance
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720/1600 should be fine.
A lot of get away with 550/1600. Better idle. Seen some FC guys with 4x1600 too. Probably overkill unless you are running a BP with a huge turbo. |
If you want 20 PSI on the track, I would run 850/1600 (or whatever is close to that but easy-to-do on an FC). I run 550/1600 on my 60-1 (T04S) and they are very close to maxed out at 15 PSI. I plan to put 850s in to replace my 550s.
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i have run 20psi on a 60-1 with 550 prim and 1600 sec.
worked ok i guess , the 550 made for easy tuning at idle |
<- 2x680, 2x1600
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You might squeeze 20 psi outta 550/1600, but you're either running more fuel pressure than me, higher afr, or making less power (less air requires less fuel).
So I agree that 550/1600 may very well work, but a little more gives you the cushion room. B |
thanks for the feed back i think 720 and 1600 would be ideal..u think i would have any fuel loss at the high end wit the 720cc's? i think it would be fine i wanna be able to make 400hp i think the 60-1 is capable or close to it.
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What fuel pump are you running? I think a lot of people (including me) underdesign their fuel pump and then end up compensating by just opening the injectors more. This isn't the good way to do it obviously because as you get into the higher gears like 4th and 5th (going pretty fast now!) your fuel pump isn't keeping up and your pressure is falling.
60-1 will push 400 rwhp no problem around 15-17 PSI with the right mods. |
running the walbro fuel pump 255
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this will be my complete set up in a month or so i hope stock engine ports, 60-1 with exhaust side and manifold, 720cc with 1600c?, 4" down pipe coned down to a 3" straight back, runing system on haltech e6x oh walbro fuel pump and parralle lines
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anything i miss?
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Damn Your goal is only 400hp..........there is no need for 1600cc injectors. Try 4 800cc injectors.......they are a bit cheaper than 1600's and have better flow characteristics.
720 and 1600 is overkill.... I assume you are using a Standalone? If you have a good standalone you can tune 400hp out of samller injectors and staging will be easier. It is better to have some overhead so I understand just buying larger injectors from the beginning but I think smaller injectors will work better for you. |
Dang........double Post!! |
so go with 4 800cc ..but if i can get more than 400hp out of the 60-1 then i want it..which size then?
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how much hp can i get out of the 60-1 and yes i'm going to be running the haltech e6x..
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this is what my turbo looks like
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it's a 60-1 .70 compressor side and .96a/r
u think i could get more than 400 out of that turbo? |
I know this on guye that uses 550/720 and put 310rwhp without running lean. I have same goal that you have (350-400rwhp). Im running 60-1 a/r 1.15 and also need bigger injectors but cant deside what should I go. I have now 550/720 but dont know should I go 550/???? or 720/????. Hows the idle with 720 prim?
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4 x 800 injectors is only 3200 cc/min of fuel.
I run 2 x 550 and 2 x 1600 for 4300 cc/min of fuel... that is 34% more! Now I suppose if you run about 75 PSI of base fuel pressure the 4x800 would work, but why do that? At 15 PSI and around 7500 RPM I'm making around 415 rwhp and using over 90% of my injector duty cycles.... The injectors you need in the end depend a lot on your fuel pressure and target redline. Brian |
why spend $120 per injector for the 800s when you can buy two 1600s for $150?
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Exactly. Just go with either 550/1600 or 720/1600.
I run 720/1600 and my idle is fine. Then again, I run the Wolf, which stages the injectors differently than the Haltech. But I'm certain even the Haltech can handle them ;) |
Im using F-con and GCC. It could get tricky with GCC if I go 720/1600? Or should I just get 550/720/????
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so i should go with 720/1600 if i wanna make more than 400hp right?
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Originally posted by REXPWR so i should go with 720/1600 if i wanna make more than 400hp right? 1FastT2 made over 400whp on his T60-1 with 550/1600. If I where you, yeah I'd got 720/1600. |
thanks man
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It all depends in the tuning. I think what people are telling you with the larger injectors is safer but In spending lots of time at large Rotary shops here in Japan they all get 420-430 hp with 4x800cc injectors. I have a TD-O6H20G and I am gonna use 720ccX2 and 800ccX2. I asked the same question about if I upgraded turbines or wanted more power say like 450 would those injectors be good enough and they said yes.
I can show you a dyno of a FC using 550's and 800's to produce 380hp. I have dynoed 362 with 550's and 720's but it is a little on the lean side at full boost high rpm and Injector duty is about 90%. Stateside thinking and Japan thinking are different and with the lack of places to get real tuning maybe larger injectors will give you a saftey margin that you need. Personally I think there is something to proper injector staging and using fewer larger injectors VS more small ones. Mazda has stuck with 550's in the primaries I think for emissions and mileage reasons as well as they are big enough to handle the first part of the powerband in most situations. Now on the RX8 they have went with 3 injectors per rotor..... Just something to think about . |
it would be nice if u could send me those dyno sheet is that turbo comparable to a 60-1 so you think i would be good with 4x800cc and i won;t lean out up top? and what psi are u making that power?
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Ok I am using a TD06H-20g running 720's in the primaries and 800's in the secondaries. I have not dynoed yet but am hoping to this week. My injector percentage does run in th 95-96% range. Rmagic assures me that because I am just tuning using the commander that he can exhibit more control on the injectors and lower that % While maintaining power.
This Dyno graph is from Rmagic homepage. The FC has a high flo turbine, and 800cc inj. in the secondaries |
I made 380rwhp on 1 bar on my E6k and 60-1 with 550/1600 combo. on 20 psi i saw as high as 78% duty cycle with a 11.5:1 afr (race gas).
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Spend some extra $$ on a fuel system, and it'll be one less thing you need when you decide you want more power. BTW, 850cc primarys will still keep a smooth idle. I'm running a 850/1300 combo, with a Groundzero (Or Xcessive) motorsports fuel pump with no problems at 400+rwhp. Idle is flawless and smooth. CJ
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I had, 1680 x 4 w/ T60-1...but one of the 1680 prims were dropping out, so I replaced them with 1000x 2 and 1680 x 2.... Getting 4 x 1680 took some time to dial in
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Definitely go w/ 720 and 1600 or MORE. This is not overkill, it is insurance. I mean, what if you do a lot of optimizing your set-up and accidently end up w/ 450HP+?
I have my 720/1600 and Walbro 255HP hitting 100% duty cycle by 7,500rpm @ 15psi on my BNR Stage IV (hybrid w/ 60-1 hi fi compressor)- it definitely can be leaned out when I dyno, but it pulls through the rich mix easy. I would recommend a more serious fuel set-up than just an intank Walbro as well. Don't cheap out when it comes to fuel it can end up costing more... |
Originally Posted by BLUE TII
Definitely go w/ 720 and 1600 or MORE. This is not overkill, it is insurance. I mean, what if you do a lot of optimizing your set-up and accidently end up w/ 450HP+?
I have my 720/1600 and Walbro 255HP hitting 100% duty cycle by 7,500rpm @ 15psi on my BNR Stage IV (hybrid w/ 60-1 hi fi compressor)- it definitely can be leaned out when I dyno, but it pulls through the rich mix easy. I would recommend a more serious fuel set-up than just an intank Walbro as well. Don't cheap out when it comes to fuel it can end up costing more... If you haven't already check out Max Coopers excellent website for fuel calculation. Here While fuel setup is not something you want to skimp on, you want to go with something that will provided the best combination of power needs, tuning ease, price, and reliability. |
Base pressure is 45psi it is 1:1 rise w/ boost. It has been suggested to me to turn the base pressure down since the Walbro loses flow at high pressures, but the 1600s stages smoother w/ the higher base pressure.
It is running rich. |
GEEZ i guess, thats crazy. way too much fuel. Im runnin stock fpr and walbro, 550/1600, and even at 10.5:1 at 7600 it was around 88%
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