1600cc injector woes
 

I have been reading everyones post on the 1600cc injectors and the Power FC. I desided to go with the 1600s because of some mixed reviews with oversizing the 850s.

I have the luxury of borrowing a wideband O2 and will be tuning my car to acheive an air fuel of 11.8:1 to 12.2:1 across the board.

This may be a week or so since I had to pull my T04S for a rebuild today!, (oil was everywhere!). I will post the fuel maps as soon as I am finished with the tuning. I am going to be running 17PSI of boost. Left the 550s in the primary as per Dave at KDR. I plan to leave the timing as it was sent by Apexi for now.


My engine mods are as follows:

-XS-Engineering T04S single kit
-Midpipe with a soon to be fitted Borla XR1 race muffler
-HKS SuperDragger catback,(newer less restricted version)
-RX7.com 1600cc fuel kit with adjustable regulator and upgrded fuel pump, stock 550s in the primary
-KDR street ported motor
-Greddy stock mount with Pettit duct, (works great with the Pettit duct!)
-Unorthadox underdrive pulley
-8.5lbs flywheel

good luck. i think 1600's really need powerxl software to tune correctly......

The powerFC limits you to 1300cc injectors I think, something like that, certainly not 1600 but you can trick it by setting it to lower cc injector combo of the same ratio. I don't have my car right now so can't check, can someone else post the correct lower cc combo to use? Then you lower the duty cycles to compensate for the larger than you told it injectors. The important thing is that the ratio of primary to secondary injectors is correct.
-Jedon

the newer PFC's will go up to 1500cc .... but tuning is a key issue

Amen to that. Now does anyone have the excel software and dyno to do that? :eek:

I talked to Ari at rx7.com personally and he said to set the FC as high as it will go, (1500cc). NOBODY can safely say that they are happy with the 1600s and the FC.

I am assuming that all of us who have the 1600cc injectors are using Ari's kit or have bought the rail and made thier own. Has anyone researched and found a 1300cc top feed, low Imp. injector that will snap right into the rail? Ari's kit is great but there are issues with the Power FC. You know something is up when XS does not even have a map for the 1600's.

I would like to help get a solid fix for the "incompatibilty".

No one runs their monster TO4X2. None of their other turbo kits would need the 1600cc treatment. So why would XS bother?

the only way to get 1300cc secondaries is to take your 850's out and send them to www.rceng.com to have them bored to 1300cc costs like $150 per injector. i did alot of research. if you are running very large injectors and a large turbo on the east coast you are better with a haltech. there are a large number of very good haltech tuners over here and MANY race cars are running haltechs without blowing engines. this is the whole reasoning i sold apexi pfc and boost kit it would not work the way i wanted it to work. just ask wankawankel. PFC is great for stock twins but for singles i recommend a haltech :) unless you live in cali by XS then go ahead and get a PFC :D

Enlarging injectors isn't really a good idea. You can get brand new 1200 cc ND injectors for about $150-200.

What's the deal with having your stock injectors bored larger? I've heard about 50 people saying it wasn't a good idea to have them bored out. Is it because they won't work well after the stocks are modified? Do they leak after? I heard that after they are bored out, they work well because their impedence is the same as when they were stock, where as when you change the injectors to a different brand, you have to mess around with the cells in the PFC just to get them flowing correctly. Answers please. Carl...

vosko: wait for the new haltech coming out. It's supposed to be a self adjusting unit. No more dyno required.:eek:

Will the 1200's you are talking about work in the 3rd gen's secondary ports and are they of the same impedance. If so I'll make the change. I was,am, damn nervous about the bored injectors.

are you sure those ND are 1200's from the factory? i've never seen brand new ones. i was pretty sure all of those are 850's bored to 1200 or 1300 and you send them back your cores. i could always be wrong. wanka: i already purchased an E6K so i will stick with it unless this new one is alot better.

many people on the forum are running bored out injectors with no problems. rc engineering has done this to many many injectors.

Vosko,

I guess you're right. You only hear of the bad experiences.

I'm going to need injectors for my new single setup, shooting for ~450RWHP.
I have a PowerFC, I'll put my 850's into the primary location by filing using washers, what would be the most cost effective way to put larger injectors in the secondary location?
Thanx!
-Jedon

Jedon,

Your question is what this post is about. The cost effective way is to send your 850's to RC or to Jason and get them oversized. Keep the 550's in the primary. You will also need to up the fuel pump. I went with the $1,100.00 1600cc fuel kit from rx7.com but am rethinking.

zkeller hit the nail on the head :) take your 550's and get them bored to 850's then get your 850's bored to 1300's and you will have more than enough fuel for 450rwhp :)

I have an extra set of 850's so I was thinking of using those as primaries and getting my other 850's bored to 1300. Is this the cheapest workable solution?

A couple of replies ago someone mentioned new 1200's are available. I PMed him to get more info.

How about we all keep the 1600cc kit and sell the PFC's to the twin turbo kiddies. Let's do wheelies with Pepe Loco. Haltech isn't too far away. Haltech are the arms and legs to the big sinlge set ups. The PFC seems to be only a crutch.:eek:

1. Who tunes Haltechs in SoCal?
2. How do I trade to a Haltech from a PowerFC without losing $?

It's not the Haltech that scares me. It's the damn wiring harness!!!!


How much could I get for my PowerFC with Commander and Boost controller kit?

i sold my pfc with commander(had like 100miles on it basically new)from srx7 pretuned for $1100 and boost kit(new) for $400. i lost about $350 but its cheaper than a new engine :) you might as well do it right the first time.

Jedon: in cali there are a few tuners i know K2RD can tune it you just have to ask around.

As far as getting the Haltech installed, you don't have to worry about it. There are Haltech/Rotary tuners everywhere. And for the harness, fu*k that sh*t. People modify the Rx7's for keeps, so forget about the harness. After the Haltech is in, you have no more worries. No more, "can I install this or that and will my computer control it?". There are many people on the forum that will buy our PFC's for less. First of all did you read how many people bought from the group buy section just to save $200 dollars. I'll sell mine for about the same group buy price, with the commander. And I have maps that people haven't even posted up with yet. Try getting that at a discounted group buy price. Just the facts ladies. Vosko is the first to admit the limitations to the Apexi unit. Limitations to only us. (FD's with MONSTER turbo set ups)

FC's on the Parts Trader!!!!!!!!!! haltech time!!!!!!!!!

Yeah baby! Sold mine to a nearby FD brother too. He has the twin turbo set up. He had everything but a good EMS. He's going to pick it up in the next few days. Then.................HALTECH TIME FOR EVERYONE!:eek: :dragster:

I just secured my Haltech, harness, etc.

yes come to the dark side :)

Have any of you Haltech guys looked into the AEM? Does more than the Haltech for less money I think. It comes plug and play...with the ability to do alot more. I have the PFC right now....but I'm gonna get the AEM also for next season at the track. My girls car will be the happy owner of my PFC. I'm not trying to flame...just letting you guys know if you didn't already.

1300cc Primarys ?
 

I am presently running 850 pri. and 1300 secs. ,using a E6K ,which I installed and is still fine tuning,any-way the questoin is ,has any one tried idleing on 1300 pri. injectors ? I am also useing an Aeromotive pump with -10AN lines Paxton regulator etc, when I put together a system I try to "over design" so that I wouldn't have to revisit it in the future.,shooting for 500-550 whp with a single turbo on a street ported motor (when I have to re-build).

I would forget about making the primaries too large. You're only looking for trouble. Go with the 550/1600cc inj combo. It works for Ari & Kahn. It will work for you. Unless 9 second time slips aren't good enough. Rx7.COM has base maps to run that combo for the Haltech. Carl...

I am not about to change out my entire set up,it works pretty good I just want to be sure I have enough for my single turbo set-up when I eventually decide on the turbo.:eek:

1300 on the primary side is more than double the stock amount. Running that big of a primary will make it hard not to run rich. Remember the primaries are basically for 3K rpm and down. Why go so large, I don't think it will help you any. Besides, how hard is it to put your stock 550's back in. It take about 5 minutes. Carl...

Re: 1300cc Primarys ?
 

Hey Marcel, you should have no problems idleing with 1300cc injectors in the primary.

It is better however, to leave the primaries and upgrade the secondaries to 1600 or 1650cc injectors. ;)

I've done several setups using 1600cc injectors as primaries. The main drawback is not so much the car running rich at idle. The problem is extremely light loads where the bigger injectors cannot meter the fuel all that well.

1300 primarys
 

I would not bother with 1600 secondarys because as I said I already re-sized a pair of 850's at RC and they work fine,also if you do the math 850 pri. and 1300 secs = 4300cc and 550pris and 1600 secs =4300cc, so I am still flowing the same amount without vaving to replace everything and spend extra money.I would still however like a little extra (just in case !) so I might not go as large as 1300's ,and maybe go with 1050's , 1100, etc.:)

Re: 1300 primarys
 

That's with keeping the 850cc injectors not with 2x550cc + 2x1300cc.


This is the setup I was suggesting:
2x850cc in the primaries and 2x1600cc in the secondaries.


Good Luck with whatever setup you choose. Just try to start out rich and then take out the fuel.