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***FAKE*** Knock-off IGN-1A Coils - How to identify them, by SakeBomb Garage
So, we (SakeBomb Garage) as many of you know have been making and selling our *genuine* IGN-1A coil kit for the FD (plus 20b/RX8/Miata/LS/Universal Boosted Applications/etc.) We also sell our mounts, spark plug wires, and Mil-Spec standalone coil harness for the FD (and other platforms) separately from the coils for custom projects. Starting a year back we started to see a higher frequency of people buying just the parts minus the coils. That was a little confusing to us (as we're competitive on genuine IGN-1A coil pricing) but we never really questioned it too thoroughly until we started to get customers complaining about coils experiencing breakup. Upon further investigation and asking for pictures/purchase history/etc, it seemed that the strangely high numbers of customers with unresolveable breakup issues had one thing in common... 100% of these problem cases bought their coils elsewhere (ebay, other vendors, etc.).
Around the same time we started getting messages from "vendors" in China claiming to want to sell us IGN-1A coils for a ridiculously low prices. Each time we played along and got samples, and each time those samples were complete fakes! Literally a $5 standard ignition coil inside a casing that LOOKS like an IGN-1A coil! We were shocked (pun 100% intended ). After testing we found the same... standard coil inside a case resembling an IGN-1A coil (which would be very hard to distinguish from the real coils if you didn't know what to look for). Sirs and madams, this post is to inform you how to spot a fake (there are lots now) and who sells real, actual, non-BS IGN-1A coils.
Sources for real IGN-1A coils (special batch code markings on the side (check under stickers): -SakeBomb Garage -AEM -Holley -Mercury Marine
(customers need to even be careful for knockoff fake "name brand" coils as well (fake sticker on a fake coil)... we've seen fakes recently with fake AEM / Holley stickers... Holley had to switch to laser engraving the coils but I'm sure that will be knocked off too eventually)
Sources for Fakes: -Anything form Ebay
-Many sellers on Amazon (including prime)
-Random online vendors / retailers
-Anything priced too low to be real
IGN-1A coils come from ONE private source that SakeBomb / AEM / Holley / Mercury Marine etc. buy from... these are *not* available to the public.*
How to identify a fake:
There are a few "fakes" out there form different knock-off manufacturers.* There appear to be 2-3 fake coil manufacturers out there based on the samples/castings for cases we've seen. -Black Potting: If you see black potting on the underside of the coil around the heat sink, it's a fake.* Real IGN-1A's use an opaque white glossy potting. -Black Paint on the heat sink: Another giveaway is black paint on the heat sink (versus black anodize on the heat sink). Paint is cheap... $5 coil cheap. You'll also notice burs on the heat sink and other finishing issues. -Weight: Real IGN-1A's are HEAVY due to their internal winding design, materials, construction etc. The fake coils in an IGN looking case are light. Real IGN-1A coils are roughly 14.6oz where the fakes are around 12.8oz -Brass bolt inserts: Real IGN-1A's are silver -Poorly aligned / poorly cast silver inserts: They may look silver but the alignment and fit/finish is not quite right vs the actual coils. -Poor case casting quality: We'll post some pictures below... this can be subtle and harder to identify but if you hold a standard IGN-1A up next to a fake you'll notice some odd things. Extra flashing, not quite right magnet shape, etc. -Spark Plug Post Details: The real coils have a neck-down after the barb to hold the boot on, the fakes are smooth.
Pictures of fakes below:
FAKE: Painted heat sink with black potting (rough surface finish and poor machining quality)
FAKE: More black potting
FAKE: Square edges, mis-aligned inserts on this copy (this one is one of the more obvious copy brands)
FAKE: Red... looks cool, but alas... it's not real.
FAKE: Red with black potting
FAKE: Very good copy... this one is hard to spot. No batch number, but otherwise convincing aside from the heat sink.
Crazy stuff.. but is out there more than a lot of people think.
Stop buying Chinese stuff, it's more than just issues with cheap parts and broken engines. They will keep making them cause we (some of us) buy them.
Good to put them out there.
thanks for sharing.
Put a Real IGN-1A coil side by side please to see the differences.
Absolutely, we're going to put together some side by side shots shortly and post a dummed down version of this post on social media for the lemmings We'll put together some shots soon... but it's tough, I've seen at least 4 different types of fakes to date.
So if i got my kit from yall i have 0% chance of having fakes?
Correct. We purchase directly from the genuine IGN1A manufacturer. The same source as AEM and Holley, and we're purchasing in similar quantities to the big guys at 500-1000+ coils at a time. We've talked about doing the same as AEM / Holley... adding our own sticker, but it seems like a waste of time. Possibly not now that we're seeing so many fakes out there though.
Uh...they sell the real coil and I assure you, its not a knockoff.
Well sure, the AEM branded coils. Remember, those are just IGN1A with a sticker (same with Holley). There are very few sources for Genuine IGN1A coils. AEM, Holley, and SakeBomb are some of the few sources for genuine coils. The difference with AEM is the sticker (and price hike).
Is there any installed pictures of the LHD mount version? I’m spurious where they are mounted in the engine with twins and normal plumbing. I’ve got to read up more after being away from the spear scene for so long so simple questions like what Ecu can control theses, etc.
edit - saw a few pics on the net with them mounted on the fender wall beside the brake booster and I think where my old cruise control was before I yanked it.
Sent you an email yesterday. Coils were supplied new from Pantera EFI so not fake. Switched from D585 coils assy that was fine and now not getting any spark on this RX8/REW setup. B+ at the coil, fuses ok, grounds proper. Thought the harness is 100% PnP, but maybe something is being overlooked since we don’t have an actual schematic for it:
Well sure, the AEM branded coils. Remember, those are just IGN1A with a sticker (same with Holley). There are very few sources for Genuine IGN1A coils. AEM, Holley, and SakeBomb are some of the few sources for genuine coils. The difference with AEM is the sticker (and price hike).
Its worth paying the extra $3 per coil to not end up with duds. If you can't afford the price difference over knockoff coils to buy the known real IGN1A then you will not last long in the rotary game. Its not hard to obtain real coils, it boils down to don't be a cheap moron.
No offense, I just don't see why this is a complicated issue.
I have had also some woes with AEM IGN-1A coils. they were purchesed from JEGS in 2015 pn 017-30-2853. due to various reasons and issues the car maybe ran 2-3 tanks of fuel. Now I was finally about to sort things out and it turned out both the tailing coils where not sparking. The car runs a adaptronic ecu with direct fire coil on plug. One of the trailing was completely dead, the other one could spark like 0.1 mm but not more. The 2 leading coils are fine. (they run the same dwell). I ran the car sometime with non resistor plugs, which might or not have something to do with this.
Now I thought let me order some coils at a friend whos a mercury dealer. I got 2 pn's that appeared to be IGN-1A: 300 8M0077471 and 339 8M0077473. I randomly chose the first one. When I recived the coils the it appears they are in fact a bit smaller then the AEM ones and when looking the heatsink there are 4 screws vs 2 on the aem. I installed the coils and they seem to work fine. What did catch the eye is that they seem to pull alot more current then the remaining 2 AEM coils. I checked this in the output test mode of the modular ecu. there one can see the battery voltage graph during the 5 ms dwell.
The question is could it be the AEM's I got initially where fake? Or are the mercury ones I got now fake? or are they a totally different coil alltogether?
Update. One of the 2 new mercury coils is now also dead.. it still pulls current but no more spark. you can hear the coil discharging inside itself. what a mess really. Other one is still fine for now.
This is the dwell used. plugs are new denso IW31 (resistor plugs) on the trailing gap is approx 0.7mm. Im a bit puzzled how or why this happens. Hard to believe that this small of a gap can cause sparkover inside the coil. Wires are MSD 'super conductor'.
Ok, it turns out the mercury coils I had are totally different animals then the IGN-1A. They charge a lot quicker and I would recommend max 1 msec dwell @ 14v and maybe 1.5 @ 12v. Pulling approx 13A at 2 msec @ 12v and over 16A at 3 msec @ 12v. this ia big contrast to the IGN-1A ones. they pull only about 5A at 3.2 msec @ 12v. Its clear now that the coil died from overdoing it. These seem to be very suitable for very high rpm apllications or wasted spark where short dwell is required.
In the video below the spark also starts to sound a bit overdone at anything over 2msec. this is 6666 rpm and 12v supply.
I had overlooked that. Thought it was the AEM coil, but then went back and saw where you changed to the noted non-IGN Mercury coil after you updated the situation.
So you’re not going to install IGN-1A coils instead? How does the output compare?
I dont have the tools to measure the output so I cannot judge that. but I ordered 2 more real IGN-1A now to replace the other style mercury ones that I had on the trailing side after 2/4 AEM IGN-1A's failed.
This screenshot also clearly shows the difference between the coils. With 4 msec toghethe they pull close to 25 Amps. Then the leading fires and the remaing current is solely for the trailing.. notice also the variation of the loading behavior when looking st the previous cylcle which can just about be see due to the lag of the display.
09-01-18, 10:44 PM
***FAKE*** Knock-off IGN-1A Coils - How to identify them, by SakeBomb Garage
). After testing we found the same... standard coil inside a case resembling an IGN-1A coil (which would be very hard to distinguish from the real coils if you didn't know what to look for). Sirs and madams, this post is to inform you how to spot a fake (there are lots now) and who sells real, actual, non-BS IGN-1A coils.
