15+ psi with rtek 2.1
 

Hey guys,

I would like to get some opinions on a test i'm going to try on my rtek 2.1 setup. My sig has the rest of the major mods I have done so far. Upon datalogging my ecu I came to find out that under full load my car is disregarding my timing map and is repeatedly pulling 8-9 degrees, which isn't a problem to me, it's safer but also hurts making good power slightly. I have a progressive coolingmist meth kit with two 500cc injectors that I plan to use simultaneously with running 15+ psi taking advantage of my ecu pulling so much timing. I plan on running anywhere from 18-20psi on my turbonetics hybrid and using the methanol to keep afr's in the 11's if I happen to max them out and to act as a detonation deterrent.

I'm not too concerned with blowing the motor up because for one, I've had the motor for 6 years now and it's got it's monies worth and I fully intend on buying a new motor from Mazda and building a monster motor off of that later this year. I know this is a sketchy way to tune but I think it might work. Any opinions?

Also I'll be running 50/50 meth pre turbo and post intercooler, i'm fully aware that 18+ psi is out of my efficiency range of my compressor but methanol can effectively widen the efficiency range of a compressor by cooling the charge of the air etc. etc...

sounds like you know what you're getting yourself into.

Just came back from trying it out...went as planned

I did 1 pull with methanol coming in at 15 psi. It has a distinct sweet smell in the exhaust after a pull lol. Anyway, On the first pull with the meth I did a roll into 2nd gear, I hit the desired 18 psi by about 4700 rpms while not even going full throttle until 3600 rpms. From there it held 18 psi until around 6500 rpms and fell to 15 by my 7k redline. AFR's were in the high 11's and low 12's, timing was around 6-7 degrees hitting 15 degrees by 7200 rpms. AIT's also remained at the AFM temperatures.

I got a little brave and decided to try another pull without the meth so I turned it off and added the remaining fuel I could add 5k and up to my fuel bar graphs. I did a 1st and 2nd gear pull. It hit 15 psi by 5200 rpms and then only took .7s to hit 18 psi after engaging 2nd gear. Once again the boost fell off to 15 psi by redline but it felt like I had picked up a good 10-15hp over the pull without meth. AIT's raised about 5 degrees above the AFM temp by redline (116 degrees F, ambient temperatures were in the high 80's) and AFR's remained in the high 11's low 12's.

Everything seems feasible, I don't see any problem running it like this, it is definitely quicker in the low and mid-range and slightly faster up top which is nice cuz I raced a buddy of mine on Sunday with a GT42R large streetported FD that made 390 rwhp on 13 psi and he could slowly inch me back in in 4th so I might have an edge on him now :nod:.

Wonder what's up with the ecu pulling timing? Interesting results, definitely pushing some limits! GL!

My only guess is that when I set my timing, my idle was a little too high so in order to get my timing marks to line up I had to turn the CAS pretty much as CCW as it could go which in turn was pulling timing. I thought it could have been the knock sensor pulling timing but I checked the palm pilot for timing retard and it stays at zero, but I'm happy that it does. I once was told by Arghx that he doesn't see much net hp gains in super advanced timing in rotaries anyways and if you retard the timing you run a safer tune. So in essence, if you have safe timing, rich AFR's, and low AIT's you shouldn't have to worry about detonation, only thing to worry about is an apex seal letting go because of the stress. Once a motor is nice and broken in there's not much you can do about that factor.

So unless you're above 15 psi when above 5k you'll be running rich?

yup, just a tad

drive it till it blows. Who knows, that could be a while. Could you post a log file or a screenshot of your log that clearly shows the timing curve as you go through the gear?

Here ya go....this was a pull I did at a dyno when I was running 12 psi earlier this year

http://i51.tinypic.com/2dlsok4.jpg

btw, my timing map shows that at 14 psi and 5400 rpm I should be around 15 degrees or so (top of my head).

Just curious but I'm getting zero wheel spin even at 18psi with 255's, that should put me right in the low 300 rwhp mark since I made 281 @ 12 psi. Do any of you have traction problems with 300+ rwhp? I'm not complaining, just curious...maybe clutch is slipping or something but I figured I'd struggle a little to keep the car straight in first but it just bites and goes...even in the rain it might spin a little top of 1st but that's about it. odd.

OK, your 18 psi doesn't happen in 1st, correct? Are you laying a patch when slapping 2nd on dry pavement? I would expect it can at that psi. Mine w/ 225/55-16s would lay a good patch @ 15psi in 2nd when I was running 4x550's, FCD, and an HKS additional fuel controller. If the pavement was wet, it would snake 10 yards or so.

It spools very quick so I usually see close to 18 psi in 1st, so that gear goes by in a blink of an eye. If I grab second really hard it will chirp, then go. Maybe the car isn't making as much power as I thought? If I get a chance this week I'll make a video for fun

On my crappy 225's I can blow out 1st no problem & some traction issues at top of second. but my tires suck, they're old and have a high treadwear rating. They'll spin in third in the rain at about 40-50... You could be losing your clutch? Make a vid!

Weather has a lot to do with it. If it were winter time you would be spinning in 1st probably.

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but what size are your rear tires? Your sig. says 17x10 wheels, which means you can fit some WIDE tires back there. Wider obviously means more traction.

I've got 255's on there, I've seen people run up to 285's with 10" wheels but I see no need for it yet since I can't even break these loose haha. I'm about to warm up the car and take a vid shortly since I've done all my errands today, I'll be recording with one hand so I apologize in advance lol

Here you go guys.. I shut her down right around 7100 rpms. That was my first pull of the day which for some reason always feels the strongest, it seems to get slower as the day goes on even though my fmic keeps aits down lol. Anyways, as you can see it hits 18 psi and holds it well before redline, no wheel spin :( lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdTL4G1FQcE

I'd love to grab a hold of your map!.
I've been ahasing a BOG at 5100 and it won't let me redline at all,
Just like a Cruiser car..Nice looking,Got the Engine but can't show it off!

Aaannd here we go! Looks like it goes, but I would think you'd blow off the tires at 18#s. I'll make a vid tomorrow...

Soo since you'll be making a vid...I timed the first gear pull from 2.5k-7k at 1.6 seconds, and full boost at around 1.03 seconds...see if you can beat that :egrin:

Timing or fuel map? Sounds like your map might not be the issue though?

Ahh.. the beauty of a torqui unported motor.

yes stock ports are underrated. That vid is definitely more responsive in 1st than my large street port + T04R @ 16psi in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DR5pPwGOkk

but I can only give it 1/2 throttle in 1st to keep it planted.

damn that pulls hard up top, I would out spool you but you would quickly run me down lol. What size tires do you have and do you know how much power you're putting to the ground?