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E85/Methanol Fuel System for 850-1000WHP 13B
Hey guys, just looking for some insight on what components that some of you are using for the 900-1000WHP ethanol/methanol setups. I'm really trying to stick to running one pump, but if multiple are needed, I can comply. I'm sure that the mechanical setup would be the ticket here but I'm just trying to run an electric fuel pump if possible. Depending on the height of my fuel cell, running a mech pump could get very expensive if I had to run a cable drive conversion..
So far I've looked into these pumps: -Magnafuel 4303 -Weldon DB-2025A -Weldon 2035A -Dual Bosch 044's As far as injectors go, I plan on running 2 primary ID2000's and 4 secondary ID2000's. I can add 2 more if needed since I have the Pro-Jay billet 4 barrel TB. Please feel free to chime in with info on this! Thanks! |
There's a huge fuel difference requirement between Ethanol and Methanol.
Either way you look at this, that's not enough pump. Go Mechanical and have a quality internal swirl pot surge tank setup to lift it out with a bit of pressure head. If you're talking the LOWEST requirement (900whp) on the more efficient fuel (Ethanol), you're out of injector too unless your base pressure is something astronomical (system runs hotter). Your setup is good to around 750whp with 75-80psi base pressure and a HUGE turbo. Something like a BorgWarner AirWerks S472SX-E or S476SX-E on T4 Sizing. Going to T6 would make sense here... |
Id run three walbro 450's just to be sure. They're cheap enough.
Only problem with running multiple pumps is you hope that one doesn't go bad. Mechanical is the way to go with a high horsepower setup like this, but I understand not wanting to make that step. |
Originally Posted by krazy4
(Post 12285869)
Id run three walbro 450's just to be sure. They're cheap enough.
Look, I built out a pre-wired and plumbed 'black box' of 3x Bosch 044s in as compact of a space as possible for my application at only 650whp on e85 (at 43.5psi though). You can take THAT setup to 1000whp on e85 without issues. Problem is, that I'm not selling them until I get more progress on my build, and I can't go buy all these parts in quantity to build kits while I can't even afford to finish fabrication. Your best bet is a Coachman Performance Internal Swirl Tank (IST) with Bosch 044 Lift Pump into 3x Bosch 044s (my 'black box'), or the smart thing would be the IST into a Mechanical Pump, in which case you'd want to go Weldon #34706 (6.8 GPM) to handle your ethanol needs or #34712 (12.5 GPM) to handle your methanol needs. It's a rotary, expect thirsty, then triple it. |
Originally Posted by krazy4
(Post 12285869)
Id run three walbro 450's just to be sure. They're cheap enough.
Only problem with running multiple pumps is you hope that one doesn't go bad. Mechanical is the way to go with a high horsepower setup like this, but I understand not wanting to make that step. |
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
(Post 12285846)
There's a huge fuel difference requirement between Ethanol and Methanol.
Either way you look at this, that's not enough pump. Go Mechanical and have a quality internal swirl pot surge tank setup to lift it out with a bit of pressure head. If you're talking the LOWEST requirement (900whp) on the more efficient fuel (Ethanol), you're out of injector too unless your base pressure is something astronomical (system runs hotter). Your setup is good to around 750whp with 75-80psi base pressure and a HUGE turbo. Something like a BorgWarner AirWerks S472SX-E or S476SX-E on T4 Sizing. Going to T6 would make sense here...
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
(Post 12285880)
That's not even close to meeting those requirements. Those pumps are so inefficient at higher fuel pressures...
Look, I built out a pre-wired and plumbed 'black box' of 3x Bosch 044s in as compact of a space as possible for my application at only 650whp on e85 (at 43.5psi though). You can take THAT setup to 1000whp on e85 without issues. Problem is, that I'm not selling them until I get more progress on my build, and I can't go buy all these parts in quantity to build kits while I can't even afford to finish fabrication. Your best bet is a Coachman Performance Internal Swirl Tank (IST) with Bosch 044 Lift Pump into 3x Bosch 044s (my 'black box'), or the smart thing would be the IST into a Mechanical Pump, in which case you'd want to go Weldon #34706 (6.8 GPM) to handle your ethanol needs or #34712 (12.5 GPM) to handle your methanol needs. It's a rotary, expect thirsty, then triple it. I hadn't really considered the swirl tank method but that would definitely keep me from having to run a cable drive setup. |
Originally Posted by 2Lejit
(Post 12286222)
It appears that I'm probably going to have to run 8- ID2000's at least then.. Turbo-wise, I have a T6 billet S480 close that I plan on running. I got a 1.32 turbine housing so that back pressure wouldn't become an issue. I figured it would need to be 38-45lbs of boost to meet these power levels, but that would also depend on how efficient the engine is. Eccentric Motorsports is building me a studded semi-pp 13b with N/A S4 rotors.
I hadn't really considered the swirl tank method but that would definitely keep me from having to run a cable drive setup. Mechanical pumps are definitely the way to go. Not sure if the turbo will up to the task. You may need to bigger. Good idea with the 1.32 housing though. |
Originally Posted by 2Lejit
(Post 12286222)
It appears that I'm probably going to have to run 8- ID2000's at least then.. Turbo-wise, I have a T6 billet S480 close that I plan on running. I got a 1.32 turbine housing so that back pressure wouldn't become an issue. I figured it would need to be 38-45lbs of boost to meet these power levels, but that would also depend on how efficient the engine is. Eccentric Motorsports is building me a studded semi-pp 13b with N/A S4 rotors.
I hadn't really considered the swirl tank method but that would definitely keep me from having to run a cable drive setup. Zach is going to put together a BITCHIN' motor for you, so you'll be set there... The S480 in T6 would need probably 42+psi to get anywhere close to 900whp, but we'll see. Definitely like the setup. Nice selection. I hate asking this, but it's super important for a build like this. What ECU are you running?
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Originally Posted by krazy4
(Post 12286280)
The swirl tank method will be your best bet.
Mechanical pumps are definitely the way to go. Not sure if the turbo will up to the task. You may need to bigger. Good idea with the 1.32 housing though.
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
(Post 12286304)
Yes, 8x ID2000s would handle it. You could make do with 6x at 75-90psi base pressure on either 3x Bosch 044s or a huge Weldon mechanical pump. Coachman is the man (Elwood on here). Tell him RGHTBrainDesign sent you.
Zach is going to put together a BITCHIN' motor for you, so you'll be set there... The S480 in T6 would need probably 42+psi to get anywhere close to 900whp, but we'll see. Definitely like the setup. Nice selection. I hate asking this, but it's super important for a build like this. What ECU are you running?
I'm going to do a little more thinking and talk with zach since he has some ideas as well, then determine which route would be best. I'd really like to avoid the multi pump setups but that may be the route to take. Yeah I also think I'm going to have to bump up in turbo size. Probably 83-85mm. As as far as ecu goes, I plan on running a Fueltech FT-500. I'll be logging dual Widebands, egt, TPS, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and probably IAT's. There's probably some more stuff on there that I'll end up logging if necessary. |
Ohh, this is going to be fun! Really like the FuelTech ECU (FT-600 specifically), and their software is catching up to their badass hardware. They really do a great job of making 'selectable features' for cool functionality, but it's for sure designed so everyone can learn how to tune it at the drag strip. Very HolleyEFI, Microtech-esk in that regard.
Well, the next bump up is S488SX-E, then S588SX-E for BorgWarner. Might want to also look into the Garrett stuff if you're after another reliable option. Precision, Bullseye, etc don't really sell me on reliability. Make a build thread and keep us in the loop. |
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
(Post 12286426)
Ohh, this is going to be fun! Really like the FuelTech ECU (FT-600 specifically), and their software is catching up to their badass hardware. They really do a great job of making 'selectable features' for cool functionality, but it's for sure designed so everyone can learn how to tune it at the drag strip. Very HolleyEFI, Microtech-esk in that regard.
Well, the next bump up is S488SX-E, then S588SX-E for BorgWarner. Might want to also look into the Garrett stuff if you're after another reliable option. Precision, Bullseye, etc don't really sell me on reliability. Make a build thread and keep us in the loop. I see that Len is running an 83mm turbo on his FD but he's also running Methanol. I really think I just need to keep it realistic and stick with e85 so I will probably need a little bigger turbo that that to make similar power. Seems crazy to have to run an 88mm on this thing so I'm wondering how the billet 85mm units would do. I might start up a build thread but honestly, I haven't been to active on any forums since Facebook groups took off. Most of my updates will probably be on there or on Instagram since its "easier". Facebook- Avijit Verma IG- 2Lejit |
Just followed you.
IG - RGHTBrainDesign |
http://paradiseracing.com/shop/13b20...fuel-pump-kit/ I wouldn't even waste your time or money buy once cry once because you will eventually end up going mechanical.
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If you're aiming for 1000HP, your only solution is Mechanical. Rons twingear or Waterman.
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Originally Posted by 13btnos
(Post 12290403)
http://paradiseracing.com/shop/13b20...fuel-pump-kit/ I wouldn't even waste your time or money buy once cry once because you will eventually end up going mechanical.
Originally Posted by freddyrx3
(Post 12291554)
If you're aiming for 1000HP, your only solution is Mechanical. Rons twingear or Waterman.
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Weldon is actually going to last. I hope this stays a street car.
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if methanol is even in the discussion, then you need a mechanical fuel pump
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Just wanted to give a little update in case anyone else is looking into to this as well..
Since I will be running E85, I'm going to be running (8) ID2000's which will be fed by an In-tank Aeromotive 5.0GPM Brushless Gear Pump. This should supply more than enough fuel to make the power I'm looking for. The custom fuel cell was built by Fathouse Fabrications and the turbo kit was fab'd up by Klint @ Eccentric Motorsports. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...125ca0eb84.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...c8060ba698.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...f0c90acfb9.jpg |
What’s your plan for the car? If a drag car forget the e85. I have a e&j 8 injector tb new with velocity hat if interested. Also have a s482 billet I am selling.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...0f44196165.png https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...4e20b2a9b.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...9aba3275ef.png |
The car will be a Drag car but I will get it out on the street here and there. I appreciate the offer but I already have the Projay 4-barrel TB. I also have a Bullseye 83mm TCT on the car and probably have to bump that up a bit as it is.
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Not sure about 1000whp but 850whp, e85 will work with lots of water injection. Ran without water injection once and hurt the motor.
Thats a nice setup you have there. Looks great! 850whp is allot IMO. With a good trans and weight reduction, car will be fast. |
Originally Posted by krazy4
(Post 12285869)
Id run three walbro 450's just to be sure. They're cheap enough.
Only problem with running multiple pumps is you hope that one doesn't go bad. Mechanical is the way to go with a high horsepower setup like this, but I understand not wanting to make that step. Skeese |
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