Teflon apex seals?
 

I was talking to BATMAN the other day online, and he mentioned something about teflon apex seals. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about them? I'll probally be searching the net as you read this, doesn't hurt to ask. ;) thanks for any info.

ever noticed that when you use a metal spatula on a teflon pan how the pan gets all scratched up? thats a lot of money to put out when ceramic seals work better. i dont know a lot about teflon. . . besides the fact that its the slickest man-made substance out there, but i dont know what it would do to withstand heat for long periods of time. . . . along with constant scraping on a metal rotorhousing.

paul

I find it impossible to believe that anyone makes Teflon apex seals. I think you are talking about the Teflon coated silicone-cored o-rings.

-Max

Teflon is a rather weak material. It also melts at combustion temps.

hmm alrighty nevermind then, thanks for the help.

err.. not to mention that teflon get's unstable at 400-500f

I have seen articles about Teflon piston that Benz was working on a few years back, but not heard anything recently.

Waitaminute, are we talking about pure Teflon apex seals or Teflon impregnated apex seals?

Pure Teflon would not work at all, since you need some structural strength to handle the apex seal bounding over the rotor housing surface (yes, it goes up and down in the apex seal groove) and pressure from the combustion gases trying to blow-by the apex seal itself.&nbsp Pure Teflon does not have too much structural rigidity in this environment.&nbsp On top of that, Teflon expands under heat, so you'd get something that'll jam into the apex seal groove.

Now, Teflon impregnated apex seals might work...



-Ted

i picture someone grinding away at cookware late at night...

didnt mazda line the fd rotor housings with teflon?

mike

On the FD housings they put a coating of graphite with a light clear coating to keep it from rubbing off real easy. They also use this coating on all new replacement housings for 12a's and later.
The purpose of this coating is just for immediate break-in. Any of you that have had any new housings lately have probably noticed this.
I have seen some motors that came apart pretty quickly (poor Ihor!) and there was no sign of the coating. We are talking about a motor that lasted two days :eek:
As far as teflon apex seals, as mentioned earlier I could see a teflon impregnated metal but not a teflon coated or solid teflon of any type.
We have some of those $138 per set Rotary Avaition seals coming in. Has anyone heard any word on them yet as far as quality?

Not sure about quality, but if I was rebuilding an FC engine, I'd get 'em (I'm doing old 4 port 13Bs instead).

I've seen some new 12A turbo or were they 12A 6 port rotor housings? Anyway, they had the graphite coating. Also, the "12A Mazda" raised letters had a black background. Malgranda SP exhaust too.

Re: Teflon apex seals?
 

Either your talking about some funky mixture of teflon with metal or BATMAN's been toking on the BAT-pipe :D

Go to a hardware store and look at Teflon tape... that should answer your question

what are all the material of seals that they make for the rotors??????

metal alloys and carbon is all I know of

Most hard seals are cast steel/iron...
The apex seals are cast steel/iron and electron beam hardened on the tips.
The side seals are sintered iron and carbon.
The corner seals are flaky graphite cast iron with phosphorus and boron then chrome plated.
The oil control metal rings are cast iron.
The oil control o-rings are Viton - the inner one used to be silicone.
The inner water jacket o-ring is silicone with fluroucarbon polymer walls.
The outer water jacket o-ring is EPT.



-Ted