Let's build a fuel system for 500rwhp.
 

Here is a link to the thread on the single turbo forum. It is resurected from a year ago. I have read about twenty threads, and I do not see a concensus in the information. In return, I will post a detailed build up, so we do not have to do this every time someone builds a fuel system. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...=1#post3801784

Please post directly on the linked thread, not here.

Thanks, Carl

I would run 2 high pressure pumps (Walbro, Supra, or the Bosch) and two -6 feed lines, one to the pri rail and one to the seconday rail. Then I would come out the front of the rails and go into a FPR then go back to the tank with a -8 return. You could prob get by with a -6 return but the price difference between -6 and -8 isnt much so I'd just get -8 so you know its enough. I'd run 2 fuel filters, one on each feed line (I'm using stock turbo II filters). For injectors I'd run Keiths pri and secondary rails with 850/1600 injectors. You could use the stock pri but the reason Keiths would be nice is so you can install a good fitting in the side of it.

I'm running 2 high flow Walbros, they are so much cheaper than that Bosche and they work great. You can get 2 of them for $200...cant go wrong with that.

*EDIT*
After reading your link some more, it sounds like you already have all that stuff and your just wanting to know if it will work. I think the way your have it laid out and what you plan on using will work good. If I had to change anything it would be your pump. I'd either run 2 Walbros (flow the same and are MUCH quieter, that A1000 is LOUD LOUD LOUD). If its for a race car I guess it doesnt matter.

When you Y from the -10 to go to your rails -6 will be enough....two -6 is more balanced to a single -10 than -8 would be.

Normally the fpd goes right in front of the first rail that the fuel gets too but the only systems I've even seen using one were running the rails in series. Since you'll basically have to feeds then Y them together on the other end with a fpr you probably need 2 fpd, one for each rail where the feed line enters the rail. I dont know this for sure.....I'd probably call up Marren or look on their website instead of taking peoples word for it on here (no offence to anyone). It doesnt seem like many people have much luck with aftermarket fpd on the board.

Stephen

Imma have to ask guitarjunkie where he mounted my a1000, but I can't even hear it. I can BARELY hear it at all even in nuetral at idle. I did alot of searching before I prepared my fuel system for 500hp+ and everything said that the a1000 is to loud for a daily driver. I would strong suggest otherwise.
Brad

Thanks guys, I already own the pumps, and the filters. I own two new Walbros, but that does not work with my surge tank set up, so I will use those for my 97 T66 Supra :D. I will probably do the -10 to the front, and then two -6 lines. As for the FPD, I haven't had a problem while running the stock in series, so, parallel aftermarket rails should be less problematic. This is a dedicated race car, so while I will provide a rubber mount for the pump, it's no big deal.

So the only unanswered questions are , will the A1000 struggle to maintain pressure, and flow against acceleration, and can I use my Modified(for stock rail) Bosch 1680s in the aftermarket rail, and last, should we use .8", or .5" ID rail?

running to seperate rails
I don't like it

what if the pump feeding the prim's goes out your F'd

I going to install a second walbro soon
feeding the prim rail-that will feed the secondary that leads to the FPR that controlls the return....

I'll probly use the return line as a secondary supply line and Y it at the firewall and then run a -6 line return to the tank via a added fitting and tube on the FP housing lid

If 1 Walbro Hi -pressure can support 400 rwhp@15PSI
then surely 2 can support 600 at 25-28 PSI

The pumps flow ratings dont really work like that because as the pressure goes up the pump flows less and less. Not to say that they wont support 600...just saying that just because it supports 400 at low pressure doesnt mean it will support a lot more at high pressure. When your running 15psi of boost your pump is flowing a LOT more than it will when your running 18psi of boost. At 28psi of boost with a 40psi base your going to be at around 80-85psi at the pump when you factor in line losses. At that pressure level each pump will be flowing around 155lph each so around 310lph total.

I dont have my trusty conversion chart with me at the moment to know how much hp thats good for. I'm sure its enough for 600rw but I was just trying to make the point that the pumps fall off with pressure that what a pump will support at low pressure isnt really a sign of what it will do at high pressure.

You probably know all of this...but I'm sure there are some people reading that dont

Stephen

Steve, you are absolutely right. That said, there are quite a few Supras pushing 800+ with two walbros at near 30 psi, running 6x850 injectors. The A1000 was tested by Cartech to flow 65gph@80psi@13.5volts. I do not remember the AMPs. A Walbro, by comparison flows 45GPH@~70psi, and alot less at 80. Those are the sort of pressures we need to ook at, since that is what you will need at ~25+ psi(40 static + 15 loss +25 boost=80psi) Yes?

A1000 -10 AN>-8 AN Single Feed Line>-8 AN to -6 AN Y> -6 AN Lines to the Rails> Tw -6 AN out to FPR> Single -6 AN return line. That's they way I'm running mine anyway. Should be more than enough for 500 rwhp, have a low pressure drop and isn't complicated by running two pumps or dual feed lines to the front. Not to mention you save a bunch on the hose.

2 Walbros at about 80psi will flow 82gph. Thats why I suggested running 2 Walbros instead of the A1000. They will flow more, be more quiet, and cost less. If you want to do some comparisons there are flow maps online for the A1000 (its on Aeromotives website) and a bunch of sites at the Walbro 342 high flow map. When I get home I'll try and remember to throw some links on here for them. And yes, your absolutly correct that flow at 75-85psi is what you should compare when looking at pumps.

On a side note, I think if i wanted to put a fuel pump in a high boost rotary race car it would be a Weldon, they have some incredible high flow pumps. Dont know what they cost though...I think they are around $600 but it'll be all the pump you'll ever need. Somthing along the lines of this......
http://www.weldonracing.com/d2015.html If I could stand the noise I'd love someting like that haha. It gets me all hot and bothered just looking at the flow chart lol. You could run some serious boost with that pump

glass_man,

Do you have the A1000 in-tank? What filter(s) did you run and where? Any pics of your setup?

I've decided to go with a similar setup and was just curious.

Cheers,
Grant

Grant, I'm still working on the sytem and I'm waiting for a few fittings to come in. I plan on mounting the A1000 in tank so it won't be so loud. I also have an Aeromotive fuel filter that I may mount on the firewall or in the engine bay.

Looks like this one.
http://mkiiisupra.homeip.net/images/...l_filter_1.jpg

I've read in another thread of someone saying they wouldn't use an aeromotive on the street. One reasons was because of the noise, the other it seemed was that he didn't think it would last for an extended period of time. I'm not worried about noise, but longevity is an issue. Anyone have any real world information on this?

- Steiner

I've run them in street cars for years with zero issues. I always install their 100 micron stainless steel prefilter, though.

Excellent that's the kind of response I was needing thanks.

- Steiner

I installed mine below the rear bumper on a custom bracket I made. I had enough room to install the prefilter and the filter after th pump. From there, I ran -8 line up to the engine bay where I used a t block to bring two lines to the different rails. Then to an aeromotive fpr then I ran -8 back to the top of the fuel tank. I installed -8 fittings in the top of the fuel tank. I also sumped my fuel tank. Which makes the car look badass from behind. I still haven't ran the system though, so I won't know how load it works till sometime this winter.

My two A1000's are loud, but it is only a smidget louder than the idle of my exhaust. I have them mounted externally, using AN10 lines. I also use the 100 micron high flow filter (before pump). I have -10 AN, and -6 AN lines. Here is how it is assembled:

Fuel Tank Sump has two outlets:
- A) -10 AN line to Aeromotive P/N 12304 Fuel Filter
- B) -10 AN line to Aeromotive P/N 12304 Fuel Filter

Aeromotive P/N 12304 Fuel Filter (A) goes to:
- -10 AN line to Aeromotive A1000 pump

Aeromotive P/N 12304 Fuel Filter (B) goes to:
- -10 AN line to Aeromotive A1000 pump

Aeromotive A1000 Pump (A) goes to:
- -10 AN line to -10 AN-T Fitting

Aeromotive A1000 Pump (B) goes to:
- -10 AN line to -10 AN-T Fitting

AN10-T fitting goes to:
- Single -10 AN line to Primary fuel Rail

Primary fuel rail goes to:
- Single -10 AN line to Secondary fuel Rail

Secondary fuel Rail goes to:
- Single -10 AN line to Aeromotive A1000 Injected Bypass Regulator, P/N 13101 (has two -10 AN inlet, one -6 AN outlet

Aeromotive A1000 Injected Bypass Regulator goes to:
- Single -6 AN line to return back into the fuel tank.

I have attached some pictures for reference purposes. This setup may be over-kill for some, but it will support more than 1000 rwhp. I know this is more than your 500rwhp mark, but you didn't put a cap (unless I misread it) of how much you wanted to support up to. :)

Red-Rx7, can you take a pic looking up at where you mounted your fuel pumps. Please :)

Thanks, The goal is a ~600fwhp capable system, W/ 20% headroom(injector DC @ 80%), so your set-up is certainly pertinent. What is a "bypass regulator"? Is it an FPR? I am suprised that you are using a -6 return(unless you have one for each rail(?), under light load conditions you will need to return alot of fuel. This is assuming you do not have a provision for lowering the voltage to the pumps at light load. So, -10 right into the rail, interesting. What are your observations regarding the performance of your set-up so far? What size injectors are you supplying? are they batch fired? If they are batch fired, do you feel a FPD is a good idea, or not needed? is your FPR 1:1, or higher? What is your base pressure? What is your max pressure, and how, and where are you measuring it? What voltage are you ryunning the pumps at? I assume custom rails, what ID(")? BTW system looks very nice, I'll look at it a little closer next week, I am off to JGTC. Thanks again for taking the time, Carl

Intersting, you are running these in series? why not parralel?

This is my plan for my buddies car (FC3S, Cosmo 13B-RE w/ S5 RH's, 67mm GTQ, etc.)

Dual Supra MKIV TT pumps rewired with 10ga wiring and activated by a relay

#1 Supra pump to stock fuel feed line, to stock filter to primary fuel rail
#2 Supra pump to -6AN fuel line, to -6 in/out filter, to secondary fuel rail

-6AN fuel line coming out of both rails and "Y" into an Aeromotive -6AN FPR

Out of Aeromotive FPR -6AN line into stock return line

720ccx2 and 1600ccx2 top feed injectors

I have a pretty diagram of this in Autocad too ;)

The only issue I might forsee is us over-running the stock return line, and not being able to get the fuel pressure down far enough. If this is a case, we will add another -6AN or -8AN line for the return.

Thoughts/comments?

--Mike

this is very usefull info guys