Speedworks

With a rebuild in mind (spare engine) I'm gathering infoon porting possibilities.

I"ll do the rebuild myself as well as the porting. In my quest for templates I found Judge Ito used to sell them and his port scheme was pretty much right on (performance wise).

Now I found Mazdatrix is selling something similar.
http://www.mazdatrix.com/toolport.htm

Somebody used them already? Somebody knows some other sources to get them from?

I'm looking for a mild/medium streetport to support a non seq set up (for staters) and a possible switch to a GT35R lateron. Power ouput smewhere between 350 and 450 at max.

I konw stock ports can support this setup as well with adequate fuel mods but as the engine will be opened I want to get this over with.

I would also like to know in which way this will affect the powwibility of "downtuning' the car to pass smog tests. I have a PFC which can run 2 maps. One would be the "smog"map, the other the performance map.

Thanks in advance,
Neal

Speedworks

a lot of reads so either you guys are interested in these templates or you have some info on those things.. Please share

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

hey im also rebuilding and street porting my engine, actually i was looking for this exact same info and have the same goals in mind, maybe not nessarily the same single turbo but somthing similar. what rebuild kit did u go with and where? ive looked at so many different ones with way different prices and different options...did u find the templates? ive only seen the mazdatrix ones so far, but i didnt see prices..i guess ill have to keep looking, and reading. well if anyone has any ideas the help would be greatly appreciated.

Speedworks

Hi. You replied to my post on RX7club.com regarding the porting templates. I have added you to my AIM so we can talk about it if you like.I have not yet decided what I will go withbut maybe we can join forces to research all the items.Neal

Kim

Hey Neal.
Talk to Oliver about the smog thing.
I believe he has documents from Mazda stating that it can be very hard or next to impossible to reach the different smog %.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Neal,

I have both templates, my engine is currently sporting the small RB templates ports. Passing smog was no problem once you tune for it.

Speedworks

Smog will be a different issue Kim ;-) I know it will be hard to reach the prescribed values, but then again.. it's always good to have cnnections;-) you know what I mean.

Once everything is in place to start it up I'll be going to the local tuner to get agood tune. My PFC should have 2 maps (base and mod) I was hoping that my tuner could adjust the base map for smog testing and the mod map for some better performance.

Maybe an additional Datalogit system can help here.

we'll see

Speedworks

KNONFS, do you happen to some pictures of the ports (OEM vs ported)? That would be so interesting.
What other mods are you running? injectors, ECU, midpipe/HF cat, exhaust??

No idea what the difference is between US an d Euro smog testing (VS not accepting Kyoto regulations) but I think euro is harder.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I don't know about the smog differences between US and Euro. I can get you the readings for the state of VA though. I own a FC, on RB ports (done by me), 3 inch DP, 3 inch high flow cat, and a single 3 inch cat back. All emission equipment have been removed, and engine management is done by a Haltec.

Pics of the ported secondary plates:
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/member...hp?img_id=4837

BTW - RB template is small when compared to ITO's

Speedworks

Thanks for the info KNONFS, I'm running a PFC on my engine but with the Datalogit I plan to buy equally adjustable as a Halltech (wideband lambda sensor as well)

My ehaust is being built with a 3" from front to back with Bonez HF cat and custom 3" exhaust (keeping 3" at exit as well,no 4" or bigger tip)

I kind of figgered that Ito's ports were fairly wild (read big). And I have asked the question several times in what perspective the RB and Ito portjob make a difference (power/smog/idling/streetability) but haven't got an answer on that yet.

I basically fal back on the following drawing I picked up on the otaryillustrated website to determine what to tell my tuner when the engine is done. In order to not blow my motor I want to give him as much info as possible to keep the tuning as accurate possible

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

ok well i just did many many hours of reading information on street porting the last few days. this thread here has alot of great info. its like 20 pages long but its intresting. http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...showtopic=6911
i still havent decided on templates, but im thinking about trying to get some from judge ito, he seems to know what hes doing. i found a few people saying racing beat's templates suck, but i dont know why....? basically what i decided to do is only mildly modify the primary intake ports and then go more extreme on the secondary. keeping the intake port closing edge straight like a knife is supposed to yeild more peak power, and having it slightly curved is suposed to broaden the torque curve, because it basically gradually closes the intake rather then more abrupt like the straight edge. (ill be doing the straight) im also using some pictures as reference on this site. http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/Porting/ I only looked at the street ported 13brew's sinse thats what i have and plan on. now after a break from reading im going to research the best way to aquire a rebuild kit. IM me sometime, it can only be good to combine efforts considering we have similar goals.

Speedworks

Excellent, i'll have a look at them tomorrow. Seems like some quality pictures of those ports.
Thx

bobybeach

Can I make a sugestion and offer some of my advise.
you dont need a templete!.
For maximum size stage 2 follow these simiple steps and youll have it rite.

place rotor on front plate with hosing and stationary gear in place and simply measure the distance from chrome face on rotor housing to the inner edge of the sideseal closest to the cornerseal.
rotate the rotor and measure the distance when the corner seal is at the bottom of the port and also when it is at the top of the port. I get 6.5mm at bottom and 7.5 at top.
Then i mark these points with sharp scribe and use the curviture of the rotor housing on these two point to scribe the new outer curve that you will port to.
This is the largest you can go! since anything larger will mean the side seal is unsuported and will cause side seal failer on start up

from experience you can port up 5mm on both primaries and secondaries without going through the casting, but no more if you want to be safe.

This method works every time for me and i have been told by the professionals when they see my ports that this is what they do on there race engines

As for the exhaust port simply port the alloy so it is as large as the exhaust sleave will allow you to go while leaving it in place.

when a port my intake to this size i get an idell that has been mistaken many times for a bridgeport.
unfortunitly the pics are of bridgeport but the stage2 secondarys are the same size regardless of weather you decide to brigde port or note.

DIETER SCHELLE

Just want to know if this porting method will work on a 13bt tii (s5) engine?Or is there a big diffrens in port timing(13b rew=13bt)

thanks

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

bobybeach....how do u decide what shape to make the port? or do u just kind of go with how the stock port is shaped and just enlargen it? ive heard reshaping the port can increase velocity, and that its more important then actual cfm (flow rate). you said follow the curviture of the housing, dont some people make this edge straight for more peak hp? also i hear about people hitting their water jackets from going to deep...how deep can and should u go? it also seems like having a more progressive slop on the port would provide a gradual closing rate, rather then it being deeper at the edge which would be more abrupt. how does this effect power? sorry for all the questions and if some of them dont make sense. ive never ported the rotary, im familiar with the concept and i hear alot of different techniques, so im just trying to figure out which way makes most sense for me to do. thanks for the reply!

bobybeach

Ye this will work on all 13b engines, the photo above is of s4/s5 block.

bobybeach

Theres no real science to port shaping. you acheive power gains on good size ports because of the overlap in the intake and exhaust.
overlap causes the intake charge to maintain maxiumum momentum, it provides the intake charge a buypass passage and will help the momentum of intake charge to mantain port velocity, so that when the chamber is ready for a fresh intake cycle the intake charge has not slowed down so much and more can be rambed in because of its already greater momentum.

port shape is determind by the limits of casting or side seal support. you dont have to go deap, just up 5mm on a beveled angle without breaking into the water jacket, note that going up 5mm will only give you about 2-3deg extra port timing, but porting out to the rotor housing maxiumum allowable whilst still providing side seal support will give you an aggresive overlap, which is were you will see most of your power gains achieved because of the reasons given above.

note the leading edge of the side seal which needs to be supported will scribe a curve the same as the rotor housing as it rotates, not a straight line!. staight lines are for lazy porting.

In my oppiniun all the other stuff you read about straight or curve this and that, good or bad port closing or what not, is rubish!. There are three reasons why people have different shaped ports.....
1:- They dont know the limits they can port to
2:- they are lazy at porting or....
3:- they dont want to compremise the extra fuel consumption with larger overlaps.

Judge Ito

I have some templates, but I just don't have the time to start shipping all over again. very time consuming.. sorry..

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Damn, thats too bad. I could really use a set of your templates!!

Judge Ito

I found some help in distribution of the porting templates. In about 3 weeks I'll have all the information available at this website and the other rotary engine websites.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

that would be great

Speedworks

can't wait...

APEXL8T

Speaking of port shapes what was the story with your past customer who went with another port design and actually had a drop off in their performance as noted by the tuning on a dyno?

Judge Ito

I'm not sure of the specifics of this customer.. shed more info. I don't know who your talking about.

dave90rx

ito how much for the templets