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Originally Posted by BDC
(Post 7814468)
I think peejay is being sarcastic with the "wunderseal" comment. ;)
B Maybe your right. I can take constructive critisism. I just can't stand it when people throw the dictionary in the conversation everytime someone mis-spells a word. Nobody here writes or speaks perfect English. |
Originally Posted by t-von
(Post 7811976)
And my point is if they do they are done.
My tephlon inners (ok ok teflon just for you) are round so even through they are fairly thick, they still wont compress enough to seal with the same amount of sealing surface area as the factory square seals in the square like housing grooves. This comming from someone who spelled underseal "wunderseal"? The "W" and "U" are no where near each other on the keyboard so you can't say it was a typing error. I'm not going to break out the dictionary (like people here seem to do all the time on miss spelled words) as I don't play that silly game. P.S. You could have PM'ed me the spelling correction but you choose not to. |
Originally Posted by peejay
(Post 7815495)
But they don't.
Round or square doesn't matter. If the seals are the correct thickness, they will crush to fill the cross-section of the seal groove. This seems to be the main problem with the seals: They are of insufficient cross-section, so they do not form a good seal. They fact that they don't degrade rapidly because of blowby due to this defect *is* testament to the quality of the seal. But if they were the correct size (and I am going from other peoples' testimony, I have never tried them) then they would not leak in the first place. The testament to the quality of these is how they are able to relieve excessive pressure from an overpressurized cooling system without complelety failing or allowing something else to fail. When there is no pressure relief within the cooling system, you will find a weakness elsewhere within the system. This is when radiators, coolant lines, and heater cores start to fail (after corrosion has done the majority of the damage). This thread here is about the poor fitting RA versions. Just so you understand, I came in here to clarify that there are teflons out that are a better fit than the thinner RA's. I don't want someone to get the wrong idea the teflons aren't any good. You just have to make use that if you decide to go the aftermarket route that you purchase the right ones. I have the Mcmaster Carr teflons. They fit perfect, are reusable, and are much cheaper than the factory pieces. Also I just recently did a pressure test of my cooling system last week. I pressured the system up to 20 psi. In an hrs time I only lost 1/2psi. That loss is a result of my water pump slightly leaking at the shaft and not the seals. peejay I suggest you do some actual research yourself with these (since you have no actual experiance with them). You may be suprised how good they really are. |
The frost plugs should blow out before the o-rings if you froze the motor. I don't by the "intelligent" O-ring story either, how it can in someway distinguish the difference between differential pressures that are good and bad. For example, frozen coolant to working chamber versus regular coolant pressure to high vacuum, or combustion pressure to low coolant pressures. Besides a for a running motor to deflect that much without other damage is unbelievable as well.
If you saw white smoke, chances are something else was leaking and the motor was ingesting it through the air cleaner. |
Originally Posted by t-von
(Post 7818554)
Yes they do! The last Fd engine I rebuilt overheated and the inner stock coolant seal gave out. The engine had less than 5k on it.
Did someone overtorque the tension bolts? The main reason why water seals fail after overheating is because the aluminum housings get crushed becayse they try to expand more than the tension bolts do, and then the bolts have lost tension (because what they are torqued against is now smaller) and them wham. Mazda had numerous weak bolts torqued to low torque in order to combat this, allowing the bolts to stretch more without damaging the aluminum. I have noticed that a lot of people recommend much higher torques for the tension bolts than OE specification, which takes away any tolerance for overheating the engine may have. |
Originally Posted by Yukitama
(Post 7824789)
The frost plugs should blow out before the o-rings if you froze the motor. I don't by the "intelligent" O-ring story either, how it can in someway distinguish the difference between differential pressures that are good and bad. For example, frozen coolant to working chamber versus regular coolant pressure to high vacuum, or combustion pressure to low coolant pressures. Besides a for a running motor to deflect that much without other damage is unbelievable as well.
I did not freze the motor never said I did. Only the thin fins of the radiator were froze preventing circulation nothing else. Without any circulation pure water will boil very fast in this kind of environment. When you hit that boiling point the pressure rises up very drastically. In my case the pressure forced the pure water past the sealing point of my round teflon inner cooling seals up untill the point my lower radiator hose blew off. Intellegent O-ring? I think you are taking what I'm saying to the extreme. The facts are the round teflons don't have as much sealing surface area as the square stock seals. With less less contact surface area to form the overall beast seal, this leaves the round teflons more vunerable to possible leakage in an overpressure situation. That's just your basic scientific priciples. All this means is that they are pressure limited to a certain PSI. If you saw white smoke, chances are something else was leaking and the motor was ingesting it through the air cleaner. I would love to here your explanation as to how you think that's possible in my sistuation? Just to let you know this isn't the 1st time the white smoke thing has happened. When I 1st rebuilt the engine I ran only water to test for leakage. When I didn't properly burp the air out of the system, I had an air pocket causing the engine to run really hot when I was driving around. When this happened I got a brief moment of white smoke out my tail pipe. It went away after about 2 seconds. At the same time my heater stoped working. I had zero external leaks. I knew right then my water level was too low and that it was boiling. I flushed the system and added coolant and it has been fine and holding pressure ever since. |
Originally Posted by peejay
(Post 7825644)
Okay, they do on FD engines less than 5k old. I've overheated the snot out of several 12As with no adverse effects.
Your forgetting I've owned a couple 12a's back in my day. ;) One time I drove 10 miles at freeway speeds when I lost my radiator. I was a stupid college kid and didn't want to pull over. Anyways the engine pegged the red mark and ran and ran and ran. I got to a service station to put in some water. This allowed me to get back home. I never got white smoke out of this engine and was shocked at how well the engine was able to still run after that much abuse. A week later this engine locked up at start-up. Fd's on the other hand put a ton more pressure on the cooling seals. The engine runs that much hotter. The pressure is that much higher. If you don't use good filtered water in the Fd system, you will loose a cooling seal sooner than later from corrosion. Plus you have a smaller radiator with shitty engine bay air flow. Fd cooling seals fail very very often in a corrosive envirionment. I was fortunate to take care of my system so well that mine lasted 108k till I blew the engine. Did someone overtorque the tension bolts? The main reason why water seals fail after overheating is because the aluminum housings get crushed becayse they try to expand more than the tension bolts do, and then the bolts have lost tension (because what they are torqued against is now smaller) and them wham. Mazda had numerous weak bolts torqued to low torque in order to combat this, allowing the bolts to stretch more without damaging the aluminum. |
I run EVANS coolant, factory seals, never a problem,in 3yrs.
except the cop who stopped me 100 in a 45 zone, yeah! I know better.(I think) |
OK. I'm finally ready to resurface the side plates for my new motor. I can totally clean them up but I will have to exceed the .002" material removal limit. I think I may have to go to .004" on some but not all sides. I will be having them re-nitrided.
My questions to you is will the TES coolant o-rings take the extra compression? Is there a better choice? Viton? I would really like to clean them up a 100% but if I have to I will leave .002" of the wear in them. I searched "Teflon coolant seals" and read all the threads and decided to bring up this one because there is posts about the dia. of the RA seals being slightly small. Could this be the solution that I'm looking for? Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. |
RA recommends stretching a teflon encapsulated seal to make it fit!!!!
BA HAHAHAHAHAHA :rlaugh: :rlaugh: :rlaugh: LOL, Well there's your problem!!! :rlaugh: :rlaugh: :rlaugh: :rlaugh: |
Originally Posted by Kyrasis6
(Post 7932233)
RA recommends stretching a teflon encapsulated seal to make it fit!!!!
BA HAHAHAHAHAHA :rlaugh: :rlaugh: :rlaugh: LOL, Well there's your problem!!! :rlaugh: :rlaugh: :rlaugh: :rlaugh: |
Sorry, I was responding to the thread as a whole and not the latest part of the conversation :)
The two different materials have different elasticities and are basically laminated together. Stretching this type of O-ring, especially if focused in one spot will cause it to separate, just like in the photos. Seen it before on other applications and I'm sure I'll see it again. I'll bet that if you inspect the o-rings before hand to make sure they don't have any defects, make sure they fit without stretching, and has the right amount of squish which every o-ring needs, the amount of failures people are seeing will be reduced dramatically. As for the depth of the seal groove, anytime you go with an aftermarket part there is the possability the OEMs specs may longer apply. If one where installing a forged piston to replace a cast piece in a piston engine you would no longer use the same clearances the factory manual calls for, same goes with something as basic as an o-ring. A different type of seal will require a different amount of crush. So yes, if you need to shave the irons past spec selecting a thinner o-ring to better match the amount of crush is probably advisable. I'm not that familiar yet with the hardening on the irons to know for sure how the over machining of the irons may affect them in different ways. Some seal manufacturers give engineering specs that tell you how much cross section and crush space you need for different material seals and stuff in the front of their catalogs. I used to have access to one of Parker Seals books but don't anymore :-( I should have photocopied it when I had the chance. |
Originally Posted by BDC
(Post 6697723)
This is a good thread, Ted, and others will hopefully benefit from it. If you don't like it, don't read it and don't bother responding.
The McMaster-Carr o-ring (9319 K239) is a different o-ring than the one in the Rotary Aviation kit, dimensionally speaking. I'm not complaining about the McMaster-Carr o-ring; I'm complaining about the RA one. If you're making an inference that I don't clean my o-ring lands, you're way off base as I have all of my housings blasted. There aren't issue with the o-ring lands being dirty; there's issues with the o-rings they provide having random dimensions. B |
Originally Posted by TonyD89
(Post 7931083)
OK. I'm finally ready to resurface the side plates for my new motor. I can totally clean them up but I will have to exceed the .002" material removal limit. I think I may have to go to .004" on some but not all sides. I will be having them re-nitrided.
My questions to you is will the TES coolant o-rings take the extra compression? Is there a better choice? Viton? I would really like to clean them up a 100% but if I have to I will leave .002" of the wear in them. I searched "Teflon coolant seals" and read all the threads and decided to bring up this one because there is posts about the dia. of the RA seals being slightly small. Could this be the solution that I'm looking for? Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. If the RA seals are infact slightly smaller diameter than the Mcmaster-Carr versions, then I would say yes. They would be the better choice. The only way to tell is to buy one of each to compare. |
anybody have a part number for the mcmaster ones? for some reason the number brian posted isn't working.
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I would really like some of the professionals opinions on this. I don't think the only reply was conciseness.
How many fudge the .002"? If I did would a smaller (in diameter) o-ring be more desirable? |
nevermind, found what i was looking for, thanks.
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My number is broke because of a billing "issue" I'm having with Cingular. I went to T-Mobile friday afternoon and yet I still don't have a working phone because, apparently, there's a problem getting the number ported over from Cingular. Hopefully I can fix it tomorrow morning on Monday.
The part # for those that are looking for the McMaster-Carr version of the inner water jacket TES orings is 9319 K239. B |
I'm glad I just found this thread. I was about to put my motor together with RA inner coolant seals (and I know people who have had no problems with them), but it seemed wise to just switch to the McMaster Carr. I might try to physically compare the two when I get the McMaster Carr ones in.
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2 Attachment(s)
I just got my dial caliper out. The McMaster Carr o-rings are about 2.55mm in diameter, the RA o-rings are 2.4, so the McMaster Carr are about 6% thicker.
Here are some comparison pics. Note that the RA seals have been sitting in my garage for a while and have been moved a couple times. they also come packed somewhat tightly into a small sealed plastic bag with the rest of the RA o-ring kit, while the McMaster Carr just came separately in a box with packing paper. I'm just trying to point out that this may not be a perfect comparison between the two. RA at top, McMaster-Carr at bottom https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1233424381 McMaster-Carr is on the "outside" in this pic: https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1233424381 |
Nice shoes, Argh.
B |
Interesting. The wire I use is nominally .091" in thickness or 2.31mm. The first stuff I used was .096" and it "hydrauliced" in the coolant passages and kept the housings from tightening against each other - it squished out and formed a T shape.
8,000 miles on latest engine and still not leaking, BTW. I was smelling coolant on cold start, so I thought that the recent deep freeze had combined with my low-tension engine torque and I was getting some seal leakage. Was planning on an engine teardown before the 2009 rallycross season started in earnest, maybe open the ports a bit more, etc. Then I noticed that the intake manifold O-rings were seeping ever so slightly onto the headers, just enough to collect when the car sat and burn off when started. |
What size mcmaster seal fits the outer groove or are they the same as the inners? I know the outer seals from mazda are relatively cheap but I might as well just order another hand fit seal from mcmaster for the outers.
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^Jared, you could have just called me. I would just stick with Mazda outer seals for simplicity sake (I think I told you this already). Yes you're going to be joining the viton inner seals but once again, you're taking 2 more seals out of the equation that you could possibly mess up.
I'm sure you're not going to listen to me so when you get flustered give me a call and I'll come to the rescue... :) |
Sorry, I actually forgot to answer your question. You're looking at 2.0mm or outer seals and 2.4 for inner seals. Goodluck...
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i use 2.0 mm off the roll nitrile cord outside
and 2.4 mm off the roll viton cord inside join with superglue,, pin in the housings/ plates with a dab of silicon will take severe 250 F overheat and live ,, will work with less than perfectly true housings - and cost peanuts compared to the OEM rubbish which is often faulty out of the packet |
I just built an engine for a customer, and the teflon o-rings were horrible. After the most careful assembly I find out that one has popped out ever so much has no been squished and is useless. I replaced them all with some Pineapple HD seals I keep in stock. Generally I'm pleased with RA parts, but this last engine really tested my patience. Maybe I'm more forgiving than others, but I'll be sticking with Rob's parts from now on.
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Ain't that somethin', Bumpstart! Could you go into a bit more detail? I may give this a whirl on my next teardown-build.
B |
Originally Posted by bumpstart
(Post 10383044)
i use 2.0 mm off the roll nitrile cord outside
and 2.4 mm off the roll viton cord inside join with superglue,, pin in the housings/ plates with a dab of silicon will take severe 250 F overheat and live ,, will work with less than perfectly true housings - and cost peanuts compared to the OEM rubbish which is often faulty out of the packet I experiment a lot myself and saw this on the McMaster Carr page. Isn't what your using the same thing as the Buna but only rated at 212 degrees? I know it's cheap as shit but why didn't you go with the higher temp rated Viton (392 degrees) instead? http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/3465/=acotin |
Originally Posted by t-von
(Post 10387990)
I experiment a lot myself and saw this on the McMaster Carr page. Isn't what your using the same thing as the Buna but only rated at 212 degrees? I know it's cheap as shit but why didn't you go with the higher temp rated Viton (392 degrees) instead?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/3465/=acotin while the nitrile 70 is somewhere around 110C -120 C ( 230 F ) http://www.transeals.com.au/seals/o-rings.php originally i trialled 2.5 mm nitrile ( $3 per metre compared to $20 for viton ) until i had a plate fail in the water groove ( to be honest the plate wasn't the best there before the build ) and the nitrile was in fact 100 % intact,, and if anything ,, a little too wide for groove in plate type grooves now i use viton,,,( inner ) and nitrile ( outer ) have done the last few years , no fail ( since 10 / 2008 ) for exactly the reason you posted above,, heat range and chemical resistance ( not that after 12 months i had any evidence the nitrile had suffered adversely , just a rusty plate groove ) there is a "jipped on O rings" thread in ausrotary and you can see for yourself the evolutions from nitrile to viton inner -- i surmise that as one of the US suppliers is supplying 2.55 mm,, and the other 2.4 mm then they have conducted there research on seperately rx4/GSL-SE/12a type plates for the large diameter and 13b s4/5 rx7 for the lesser one -- this would explain the differences in the diameter,, and the spread of good V bad results -- no one is picking the diameter difference needed for the different grooves here is my quoted reply to the similar question asked in PM- NBR 70 is exactly what i use for outer O rings the NBR usually comes also in 2.4 and 2.5 ,, though i dont recommend it for inside O ring duty as there isnt the same buffer for temp that viton has nitrile is rated to 120 C,, viton is rated to 205 C - i have however trialled nitrile there myself and the car went for 12 months before failing the groove in one of the plates ( suspect 2.5 was just a little too large for groove in plate style ) just to make it all stunningly easy - inner 740 mm , 2.4 mm CS per plate surface ( its fractionally long and fills outer edge of groove perfectly ) = 3m for engine - outer 930 mm , 2.0 mm CS = 3.8 m for engine you also need 4 x ( 15.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O rings for the engine oil passage dowels and 1 x ( 11.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O ring for the S5 type timing cover passage ( and nylon insert ) you will find with the length measurements this makes the seal slightly too long - on purpose,, as you will have to move all of the ring to the outside edge of each groove before it all beds down -- this will amount to the but joined ends being forced together under compression - a small amount of silicon in the bottom of each groove before you place the seal will hold it all in place while you stack ( a small amount will squeeze into the engine if you use too much,, but will not hurt anything if you turn the engine over and fetch the cut off out of the exhaust port ) once you get experience up you can get sparing with the silicon and only use a dab here and there to hold the seal in place - glue ends of the roll with superglue - you can use superglue on just one end,, and join them alternate method is to dab both ends in glue, hold together and dust with a little bit of baking soda ( i use the first method now ,, but originally used the second method ) the glue bond is secondary to the compression of the stack forcing the but ends together |
:suitdance
https://img296.imageshack.us/img296/...1009630fe7.jpg https://img296.imageshack.us/img296/...jpg/1/w640.png 0cm2v7 ( 2.0, viton 75 ) 0cm2-4v7 ( 2.4, viton 75 ) 0cm2n7 ( 2.0, NBR 70 ) 0cm2-5n7 ( 2.5 NBR 70 ) 0k2setn7 --kits, o ring NBR 70 , set of 5 ( thats the massive O ring kits ! ) ( $60 looked after ) transeals 08 94516011 ( WA ) inner and outer oil seals , not mazda VITON 75 O'ring 4.737 x 0.103'' PART No 158v7 at $4.99each VITON 75 O'ring 110.0 x 3.0mm part No 110X3v7 at $8.21each NBR is nitrile butyl rubber, or buna-n for WW2 buffs viton 75 is a newer , better alternative, as discussed above ( has 67% flouro silicon which makes it a newer closer cousin to mazdas special O rings ) here is the sting nitrile is around $3.70 a metre - well worth the effort but due to its -40 to 120 centigrade design temps you may want to use the RTV silicon to heat buffer it ! ( not that i think that the heat range is incorrect, just not any buffer ! ) the viton 75 is MUCH more expensive at $20 a metre but handles -30 to 205 centigrade but , doesn't work out cheaper for the outer ring ( maybe select NBR there for 2.0 ) and works out only around 50% of a saving over mazda inners - but will be physically more compression resistant ( and by reports reusable ) more chemically resistant equivalent in heat resistant more tear resistant and prouder for less true housings the number code used signifies hardness [ shore test A ] and you can get NBR and VITON in 90 !! http://www.transeals.com.au/seals/datas ... -rings.pdf order by quoting the dash number ( imperial ) or the metric size, then material specify ID, then CS ( inside diameter of ring, cross section of rubber ) https://img160.imageshack.us/img160/...1015652kp5.jpg https://img160.imageshack.us/img160/...jpg/1/w640.png using a little silicon as holding helper is not as messy as it sounds ! https://img510.imageshack.us/img510/...1015651xv9.jpg https://img510.imageshack.us/img510/...jpg/1/w640.png this is a viton glue join and it joined easily and strongly ( stronger than a laminated OEM inner seal join ) its cut straight and glued with black and gold super glue ! just to make it all stunningly easy - inner 740 mm , 2.4 mm CS per plate surface ( its fractionally long and fills outer edge of groove perfectly ) = 3m for engine - outer 930 mm , 2.0 mm CS = 3.8 m for engine you also need 4 x ( 15.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O rings for the engine oil passage dowels and 1 x ( 11.8 mm x 2.4 mm ) NBR O ring for the S5 type timing cover passage ( and nylon insert ) using charts i have supplied above, it wont be hard to suss the rear stat O ring and oil pedestal O rings which brings rebuilds down to bare minimum OEM front and rear seals and timing and inlet and exhaust gaskets ( and pickup gasket ) edit ,, o ring length reviewed 4/10/2009 to be fractionally longer - push o ring to outside of the track to make the longer lengths fit |
quote myself again --
buna-N ( butadene natrium ) = brand name for NBR = Nitrile butadiene rubber :wink: rated for -40 to 120C commonly sold as NBR-70 ( shore hardness test A = 70 ) ,, but can be got in NBR-90 buna also comes as buna-S = styrene butadine rubber which is rated to from -40 c to 100C with a shore A test hardeness between 50 - 90 viton is a flouroproylene and is rated -30 to 205C and comes as viton 75 ( shore hardness test A = 75 ) or viton 90 ( shore test A = 90 ) |
I have REALLY got to try this.
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Originally Posted by BDC
(Post 10388820)
I have REALLY got to try this.
I love re-usable seals. I've reused the same seals three times already. ;) I also have a solution for the tension bolt seals. |
Originally Posted by bumpstart
(Post 10388400)
there is a "jipped on O rings" thread in ausrotary and you can see for yourself the evolutions from nitrile to viton inner
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I also have a solution for the tension bolt seals. this is where i am now,, working out something for the through bolts - for me the OEM ones are $3 something each ,, so 17 or 19 in one go is a sting and something i wish to get around ( have reused them with RTV and not had a fail , but wish for a new solution around the mazda ones ) in WA, OZ,, the mazda parts dealer never stocks the rotary rebuild parts ,, and charges arms and legs well beyond the local costs that some of you US guys are getting OZ dollar is good ATM,,( but traditionally can be 60-75 % of of the US $ ) but shipping delays is the other biggy and so we are forced to innovate and try alternatives |
Mcmaster-carr (mcmaster.com) carries Shore A 75 Viton cord stock 2.4mm at $1.36/ft (cheap!). Part # is 94245K52.
Found another place to order it online cheaper than mcmaster carr: http://acehose.com/75duro-viton-rubber-cord-stock.htm And they carry 2.4mm metric! Searching around on Google right now for a 2mm Viton as I don't feel comfortable with the Buna's temp ranges. I'd rather do an overkill o-ring and not have to worry about it. I'll post up some more of what I find. Thanks for the killer idea, Bumpstart. This might turn out to be a great community-wide jump for us in having a superior and substantially cheaper than OEM o-ring! B |
One thing Bump - 2.4mm for the tubular dowel pin o-rings? That seems awful thick at first blush.
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Originally Posted by bumpstart
(Post 10389370)
moar info !
this is where i am now,, working out something for the through bolts - for me the OEM ones are $3 something each ,, so 17 or 19 in one go is a sting and something i wish to get around ( have reused them with RTV and not had a fail , but wish for a new solution around the mazda ones ) I just pulled my 20b apart so tomorrow I'll take pics of what I'm using for my modified tensions. It's so cheap, it's no even funny. Quick tip, don't throw away your old tension bolt seals. I'll show you how to make then usable again. ;) Also on the outer coolant seals, the factory ones get stretched. I just simply cut them back down to size and silicon them together. Lastly in that link I posted above, I'm gonna try the viton square cord this time around (2542T21) for the inners. They are the same size as the 2.4mm rounds but cost a little bit more. That should give me more sealing area. |
Originally Posted by BDC
(Post 10389738)
One thing Bump - 2.4mm for the tubular dowel pin o-rings? That seems awful thick at first blush.
the replacement one is 2.4 mm CS, 15.8 ID ( same as the O ring suit the oil filter pedestal ) if you have a 2.4 mm CS inner coolant O ring,, then 2.4mm along the oil dowels is a prudent upgrade -- no fails here-- and in view i have had to pull down totally factory engines in past to fix dowel O rings that are passing - i am 100% behind the 2.4mm CS upgrade i also do similar for the timing cover O ring = [JIS] 11.8 ( ID ) x 2.4mm ( C/S ) O ring to prevent timing cover passage blow out here is the JIS universal O ring kit and pictured is a 2.4mm CS, 15.8 ID O ring from the kit above a stock mazda oil filter pedestal O ring from the open soft seal kit below ( i know my camera and lighting sucks ) http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6044/pic1230628.jpg |
Also on the outer coolant seals, the factory ones get stretched. I just simply cut them back down to size and silicon them together. Lastly in that link I posted above, I'm gonna try the viton square cord this time around (2542T21) for the inners. They are the same size as the 2.4mm rounds but cost a little bit more. That should give me more sealing area. ( im still cheap ! ) the square section chord is something i wish to trial myself,, just make sure it isnt twisted before you join ( BTW i use a splice kit and razor blade to cut off dead square ) |
Got some juicy stuff:
McMaster-Carr carries this stuff in both Buna and Viton. Here's the 11.8mmID x 2.4mm Thick ones: 93125K35 70 Hardness $11/100 -35*F to 250*F Buna-N 9263K677 75 Hardness $11/10 -40* to 400*F Viton ... and the 15.8mmID x 2.4mm Thick rings: 93125K43 70 Hardness $11.80/100 Buna-N 9263K685 75 Hardness $11.91/20 Viton I'd rather do overkill and do the Viton even though you can get a zillion of those Buna-N ones for almost nothing. B |
This is what I'm currently been running for my inners.
9464K537 Viton 2 per pack. Don't get any cheaper than that. :) THX to IronMdx for that one. ;) |
Plug in 9319K239 - That's the teflon encapsulated silicone o-ring I used to use on my old builds bout 10 years ago.
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Originally Posted by t-von
(Post 10390346)
This is what I'm currently been running for my inners.
9464K537 Viton 2 per pack. Don't get any cheaper than that. :) THX to IronMdx for that one. ;) Ignore that. I should've paid attention to the whole message instead of the mcmaster-carr part # I immediately locked my eyes on. |
Originally Posted by BDC
(Post 10390412)
These you're using for the outers?
Ignore that. I should've paid attention to the whole message instead of the mcmaster-carr part # I immediately locked my eyes on. So far these are working pretty damn good for the inners. They fit perfectly however, my 20b is one of the few that has the bad castings on some side plates. I now have a total of 6 broken lips around my inner coolant seal valleys. Don't worry it's not from me using these seals. I read that Mazda had a bad series of 20b engines that had casting problems in the coolant seal areas. There are sections that don't have enough support metal around the coolant passages that break over time causing the coolant seal to fall into the coolant ports. Even though I have a "D" series engine, unfortunately I still got some of the bad castings on my intermediate and thick center housing. Up untll this point, I had been fighting hard hot starting problems and a slow loss of coolant. I'm glad I finally found the problem. I'm currently fixing them right now and will start a new thread showing everyone what's going on. It's a good thing I have the tools necessary to do the repairs (which aren't hard at all). |
Could someone write up a comprehensive list of o-rings, part numbers and manufacturers and descriptions please.
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Originally Posted by t-von
(Post 10390612)
So far these are working pretty damn good for the inners. They fit perfectly however, my 20b is one of the few that has the bad castings on some side plates. I now have a total of 6 broken lips around my inner coolant seal valleys. Don't worry it's not from me using these seals. I read that Mazda had a bad series of 20b engines that had casting problems in the coolant seal areas. There are sections that don't have enough support metal around the coolant passages that break over time causing the coolant seal to fall into the coolant ports. Even though I have a "D" series engine, unfortunately I still got some of the bad castings on my intermediate and thick center housing. Up untll this point, I had been fighting hard hot starting problems and a slow loss of coolant. I'm glad I finally found the problem. I'm currently fixing them right now and will start a new thread showing everyone what's going on. It's a good thing I have the tools necessary to do the repairs (which aren't hard at all).
Bumpstart, run into any problems with using a 2.55mm wide o-ring for the inners? B |
Originally Posted by Slevin_FD
(Post 10395282)
Could someone write up a comprehensive list of o-rings, part numbers and manufacturers and descriptions please.
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